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Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by mrweasel on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @02:55PM (#27041400)
There was an excellent interview in Danish radio with male/couples therapist, his take was really interesting. There are three groups of men, in his view. The lower class, being uneducated and poor, the upper class, being extremely successful. Both of these group have no problem with the changing male roles or feminism, they just ignore it or it doesn't affect them. They just continue as always and it works for them. Then there is the largest group of men, the middle class. They're told that the male role has to change, or is changing, and they do as they always do, they adapt. The kicker in this thesis is that they're then told that everything is still wrong. That is confusing, angering and leave a large number of men in a state where they no longer care or they develop an anger towards modern society and women.

The solution, again according to this theory, is not to redefine the male role in society, because that was never going to work. Instead we should return to the traditional male ideals, without the negative aspects. In essence to bring back the gentlemen.

Personally I like this theory, because it has practicality, something that is lacking in the idea that men need to evolve, adapt or "find their place in modern society".

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by 908B64B197 on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @03:32PM (#27041876)
> Both of these group have no problem with the changing male roles or feminism, they just ignore it or it doesn't affect them.

That's also true for a growing number of women, especially above a certain age. They feel completely alienated by the current 'feminist' movement and don't identify with it. Wonder if the younger generation might not do the same.

Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by crocsarecool on Tuesday May 04, 2021 @05:31PM (#27043145)
Please bring back the gentleman! I feel like men and women’s roles have taken a left turn from becoming equals in society to striving for sameness.
Re:On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness by mrweasel on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @03:08AM (#27047017)
> roles have taken a left turn from becoming equals in society to striving for sameness.

That was actually also part of this interview. They had the therapist with this thesis and another sexual/couples therapist, and the general consensus between them was that "sameness" kills sexual tensions in a relationship. This results in less sex, which in turn, for most people, means a less happy relationship.

There is an expectation men and women should be the same, expect in the bedroom, where the man should return to some classic or traditional role. That just doesn't work, that duality isn't something most people are able to deal with mentally.