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Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by atoav on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:32AM (#27004464)
> You can pick the one that pays the most.

Oh sweet summer child. When you are in debt and struggle to survive on a day to day basis, time is your enemy You cannot afford not to take a job. And if you are lucky enough to be able afford it today, you might not tomorrow.

Another thing: many people need more than one job as it is now. Guess what: if you pay people a decent living wage more people can actually get jobs, because less people have to do two or more. If your business is so inefficient it can't support minimum wage labor, it was doomed to fail before. Again: even McDonalds manages to pay minimum wages in Europe and their prices are roughly comparable. You are being gaslighted by the people profiting from that modern form of slavery.

you are right in recognizing that living costs are an issue as well, and they are an issue in many big cities. The known solution for this issue is publically owned housing which you shouldn't put into their own districts (thus creating ghettos) but mix them in throughout the city (Vienna's "Gemeindebau" is a good example for this, Vienna repeatedly got the title "City most worth living in" over the past decades). Don't only put poor people into these houses, make them decent and make them something people want to live in. Make them cheaper to rent than other flats (this way the rents in the surrounding areas cannot go up so fast). But most importantly: this must be done from the public side — nobody else in control has the incentive to act in ways that lower rents.

Aside from all this, what the US really needs to do is to look at all the other countries that are comparable to the area you are living in and wonder why they are doing so well without all the doomsday scenarios your politicians make tou believe (both socially and economically). Whenever I talk to US citizens about this they are either completely delusioned ("I live in an oligarchy") or they pretend their problems are so unique the rest of the industrialized world never had to deal with comparable things. "Who knows, maybe it cannot be solved at all", they say, while it was solved literally one country over since half a century ago.

That's like wondering whether man will ever be able to move faster than a horse, while your neighbouring country has airplaines they use on a daily basis.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by syshum on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:46AM (#27004855)
>>and they are an issue in many big cities

Housing is an issue in big cities largely due to government policies that both limit inventory (building and zoning regulations) and limit profitability (rent control) that make is extremely undesirable to create new housing.

The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by atoav on Saturday May 01, 2021 @06:01AM (#27004931)
> The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

Where and when did this work? Have you any examples?

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by hamiltont on Saturday May 01, 2021 @07:26AM (#27005364)
Not who you replied to, but I believe the current popular answer is to refer to Japan. Numerous articles have been written regarding how they managed their housing crisis by deregulating zoning and building permits. You'll have to read up on it yourself, it's beyond me to summarize as it's a complex topic and the model is not perfectly exportable. Partially for "real" reasons, such as Japan has so many earthquakes that many houses are not intended to last for 100+ years which affects the home economy. Partially for social reasons, e.g. wealthier nations view homes as investments (more-so than as a place to live, like we view an apartment), and people push tons of local/state/federal rules to ensure their investment always grows in value. The easiest way to make the value grow is to ensure there are no more homes e.g. NIMBY

One article to get you started (nothing special about this one, it's just the first I saw from google): https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-ho...

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by brigandish on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:58PM (#27008339)
I live in Japan and can tell you that those conditions lead to ugly, low standard buildings that seem to me to be among the very top complaints foreigners living here have about the place. The incentives are completely skewed here and seem just as likely to be corrupt as any other place. There's plenty of discussion about it on these boards, this one comes to mind https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26399071

As to the earthquakes/natural disasters bit for why they build relatively disposable homes - does that happen on the west coast of the US, for instance? I'm genuinely interested, if anyone knows.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by malandrew on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:00PM (#27008848)
> ugly, low standard buildings

ugly is subjective so I won't touch on that.

The low standard one is reasonable as that is what keeps costs low. The alternative is high standard and high cost. You can't really get high standards for low costs.

If the government dictates that all housing needs to be high standard, the collateral damage to that policy is that you can only build housing that prices people out of the market.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by brigandish on Sunday May 02, 2021 @01:39AM (#27012609)
> You can't really get high standards for low costs.

I agree but here they're also expensive, which, in my view, is a symptom of the corruption and lack of a free market.

> ugly is subjective so I won't touch on that.

Again I agree, but if you're into industrial estates with lots of concrete and overhead wires galore, then Japan is the place for you. I'm sure someone likes it, maybe the brutalists who made the ugliest parts of my country (the UK) after the war.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by malandrew on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:57PM (#27008822)
Tokyo. Prices have largely remained flat for the same unit of housing for decades because there aren't nearly as many government restrictions on construction of new housing.
Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by brigandish on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:37PM (#27008130)
> Oh sweet summer child.

Please try to keep the snark out. If they were snarky to you then I say go for it but I didn't notice they were snarky to you and, regardless of whether you agree with them, their contribution to this discussion is worthwhile.

Let's try and keep HN a cut above.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by malandrew on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:50PM (#27008760)
> many people need more than one job as it is now

Needing only one job is a historical anomaly as a result of an industrial society. Historically, people would have to perform a variety of tasks to provide for oneself.

Furthermore, more than one job de-risks someone's situation just like a consultant with many clients can handle the loss of a single client and not see their income fall to zero.

It's the total hours of paid labor over N jobs that you should look at instead. If you do 60 hours a week at one job or three jobs for 20 hours each, you're doing the same amount of labor with less risk.

The only qualitative difference between one 60 hour job and three 20 hour jobs is the benefits received from working 40+ hours for a single employer, but this isn't an issue with how many jobs you work. It's an issue with an artificial asymptotic condition created by an act of legislation by government.

Every time legislation creates artificial asymptotic conditions, you're going to get actors that optimize around that artificial boundary condition. If you want to avoid the circumstance, you need legislative solutions that are continuous in nature instead of asymptotic.

Re:Labor shortage or terrible jobs? by greycol on Sunday May 02, 2021 @11:42PM (#27021386)
I'll just point out: if you need 60 hours of income to survive you actually increase risk by having it split between several jobs. That is because having a portion of enough rent to not be evicted is equivalent to having not enough rent to not be evicted. You only need one of your jobs to collapse for you to only have a portion of your rent therefore the more jobs you have the more likely you are to have one fail and to be in that position.

In other words diversifying your income only decreases risk when you don't need all of it, you'd be hard pressed to argue that that group includes those earning minimum wage.