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Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by ajross on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:07AM (#26982128)
Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate. Also recognize that "a charger" is any building with an electrical drop. A regular 120v 15a plug in someone's wall will give you 100 miles of range in 6-7 hours. If they have a 240V dryer or cooktop or whatever you can cut that down to 1-2.

You can play with tools at https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to get some guidance as to how this would work.

Broadly: EVs are absolutely going to be slower going on long road trips, but it's not that bad. A routine gas car trying to make good time will have an average driving pattern like "drive for four hours, stop for 15 minutes for gas/food/potty". So you're getting 16/17ths of your highway speed on average. A typical long range EV is more like "drive for two hours[1], stop at a supercharger for half an hour", which is more like 4/5ths efficiency. That's a net difference in average speed of 18%, or roughly the difference between someone on that interstate going 75mph vs. 65mph.

Is that a killer problem? Up to you to decide. It wasn't for me.

[1] The cars charge much faster with emptier batteries (just like your phone), so topping up isn't something you typically do on the road, you just put enough in to get to your next stop plus a safety margin.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:17AM (#26982272)
> Define "middle of nowhere", I guess? Not a lot of places, even in Utah and Wyoming, are more than 100mi from an interstate.

In Utah and Wyoming you can be on the interstate and still be far from a gas station[1]. I don't think most people who don't live out west are aware of how remote parts of this country truly are.

[1]: https://www.deseret.com/2013/9/23/20526064/about-utah-no-bul...

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by ajross on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:24AM (#26982374)
I've been there (though not recently and not in an EV). And you'll find charging of some form everywhere you find gas, including the stretch of I70 in that article. (Actually in this case it's trivial for Teslas: there are superchargers in both Green River and Richfield, 123mi apart. I don't see any non-Tesla DC supercharging in Green River though.) Check https://plugshare.com if you just want to see charging facilities.

In general anywhere in the USA that is "on" an Interstate is solved problem for EVs. If you want to drive on I-whatever you're covered. The question above was about getting to remote areas far from infrastructure. And even there you need to work really hard to be far from a wall outlet.

Again, incremental costs to build out (non-supercharger) vehicle charging is much cheaper than installing a gas station, because it's ultimately just freeloading on the long-established electrical infrastructure.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:30AM (#26982454)
Ohh so I need a specific brand of car so I can use a specific charger, and If I leave the interstates I have to be very careful about where I can charge? Also I'm not counting anything that is not a fast charger, I don't want to have to wait somewhere for hours to charge my vehicle.

Edit:

Do the downvoters really think the above scenario is acceptable? Being limited on where you can go, what chargers you can use and the increased time to go places?

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by ajross on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:42PM (#26983390)
This sounds like you're starting fights, honestly. Maybe you can propose an itinerary and someone can post a reasonable way to handle that in an EV?

If you're demanding to know that there is no where that your hypothetical gas vehicle is going to be an exclusive choice vs. an EV, then clearly the answer is no. Different vehicles have different capabilities.

And that includes your car! Do you normally get nagged by helicopter owners about all the places they need to be that your ridiculous wheeled thing can't reach? The whole thing seems a bit specious.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @02:57PM (#26985051)
So pointing out that EVs can't go all the same places as ICE cars is picking a fight? Also EVs take longer to charge, cost a lot more, haver fewer places to charge, charging stations are incompatible between some brands, and EV cars don't last as long. If EVs are going to replace ICE cars they need to be equal or better, not worse. And finally the fact that you suggest to post an itinerary so I can figure out how to get somewhere by EV is a huge red flag. In an ICE vehicle I don't need to plan out my trip, I just drive and fill up when I need.
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by Retric on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:43AM (#26982621)
Presumably your going to sleep somewhere. Anywhere you sleep that has a 120V outlet is effectively a charging station. Which means staying in a rustic cabin in the middle of nowhere for a weekend is still going to fully charge you for the return trip.

Generally you end up spending less time filling up in an EV than gas powered cars due to this kind of convenience. Filling up once or twice a week gets replaced with 2 or 3 fast charger stops on long trips and simply plugging in at home.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:49AM (#26982712)
What about a long day trip or a weekend camping trip not in a cabin, which I do all the time. For the day trips I will be sleeping at home, so I don't want to have to take an extra day to charge my vehicle overnight. And for weekend trips camping there is again no place to charge when your in the middle of the woods, mountains or deserts. And a 120V outlet is going to be slow. Seriously why would I spend 30,000 - $50,000 on an electric car when it's less capable than my current vehicle?
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by ajross on Thursday April 29, 2021 @02:20PM (#26984541)
This is getting ridiculously contrived. You now demand to pick a vehicle capable of taking you to locations outside of round-trip range from a fast charger that lack any alternative charging facilities AND any place to stay, so you're going to drive straight there and back.

Are you writing a novel adaptation? This is how Heart of Darkness works. It... ends badly.

But sure: expeditions into the untamed metaphorical wilderness of the depths of the human condition probably do want to stick with ICE vehicles for now. But Tesla will probably get the savage wastes a supercharger soon enough.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @02:51PM (#26984962)
If I can do it my gasoline powered car I expect to be able to do it in a EV. what's so hard to understand about that?
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by ajross on Thursday April 29, 2021 @09:43PM (#26989013)
Can your gas powered car go months between fillups doing 20 mile commutes every day? Get 100+ mpg? Do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds?

Stuff is different. Different stuff works better in different situations. The point everyone is making is that long road trips and access to very remote locations are definitely not the sweet spot for an EV, but they're tasks it's capable of doing well enough.

Seriously if you desperately want to do your crazy day trip where you drive for 9 hours, and you own an EV... just rent a Jeep or an Outback.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by Retric on Thursday April 29, 2021 @03:00PM (#26985082)
Because you can do things in an EV you can’t do in a gasoline powered car. EV’s can’t win the cannonball run, they can drive to and from every residential address in the US that a gas powered car can. Conversely, I can’t fill up a gasoline powered car at home or in a remote area with solar.
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by Retric on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:59AM (#26982854)
So you’re going to travel 400+ miles in one day for a day trip? That doesn’t leave much time to do anything while you’re there. Still a long range model 3 will do ~530 miles with a single 15 minute charge stop, actually spending 450+ minutes driving is a larger issue.

If that’s not enough for a day trip I have questions. IMO, even traveling that range for a weekend is questionable.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by 2trill2spill on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:12PM (#26983003)
What EV gets 400 miles on a charge? And all I'm talking about is driving for a couple hours, rock climbing until its dark and driving back. For many of the places I like to go an EV is unpractical or not even an option.
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by Retric on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:30PM (#26983220)
Long range model S actually has a range of 412 miles and several other EV’s are similar.

However, the long range Model 3 only does 353 miles without charging. But you’re adding ~175 miles in 15 minuets, which is where I was getting the 530 mile figure. Basically 400+ miles is where charging wait times become noticeable.

Of course numbers depend on driving habits etc, but that’s the rough ballpark.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by cschneid on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:59AM (#26982856)
We enjoy mild backroads - dirt, sometimes rutted or washboarded or sandy, but not strictly "offroading" in the sense of Jeeps. I drive a Subaru Outback.

My dad & I have done driving around Bears Ears, Grand canyon, various national parks & forests in Colorado & Utah, and have basically had to roll downhill into Loa (if I remember the town right) when we were at the bottom of a tank.

Blanding, UT surprisingly shows a tesla supercharger, but Monticello doesn't. So I imagine the overall situation will get better over time too.

Sorta another side question - I assume any sort of car-hauled solar is too weak to meaningfully charge a car? Totally back of the napkin math (80kwh battery @ 200w portable solar = 16 days to charge). Obviously a partial charge could be had quicker, or a larger solar setup, but not really feasible, even if you figure out all the connections.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by Kirby64 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:02PM (#26982887)
You're quite a bit off in terms of charging speeds off 120 and 240V.

Even with a Model 3 (which is among the fastest charging EVs off AC power, due to its efficiency) you're closer to around ~3-4mi of range per hour (so, 16-24mi in 6 hours). It gets much much worse in cold climates, where 120V may not even charge the car at all (although, it will prevent charge loss).

120V, 20A outlets are much better (~7mi of range per hour), but still that's only 42mi/6 hrs.

Assuming you have a full 240V 50A outlet (i.e., a NEMA 14-50), you're getting maybe 30 miles of range an hour. That's max 60mi/2 hours. Also, unless you have that outlet available for EV charging or an RV, it's most likely your home will only readily have a dryer outlet available for hookup (so, 22mi range per hour max) which is less current.

Numbers get significantly worse (up to say, half the rates quoted above) depending on the vehicle used for charging.

All that to say, it's still pretty livable in my experience. As long as you aren't exceeding ~100mi/day consistently you can just constantly charge over 120V/20A and get by just fine locally.

For road trips, I'd consider 120V as a last resort until you can limp to a DC fast charger.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by throwaway894345 on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:29AM (#26982440)
> Also recognize that "a charger" is any building with an electrical drop. A regular 120v 15a plug in someone's wall will give you 100 miles of range in 6-7 hours.

I wonder if this will drive business owners to secure their outlets better or perhaps fast chargers will be cheap and ubiquitous such that few people feel the need to "steal" electricity ("steal" is in quotes because I don't mean to imply judgment).

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by jsight on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:46AM (#26982654)
I'm actually seeing a little of the opposite. I've seen some little caesar's pizza locations advertising free access to their 14-50 outlets when their own vehicles aren't charging.
Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by jsight on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:45AM (#26982644)
> A regular 120v 15a plug in someone's wall will give you 100 miles of range in 6-7 hours.

For anything other than an Aptera, this is going to be really optimistic. For a Tesla Model Y LR or 3 LR, 7 hours on a 15A 120V will get you 10%. This is closer to 30 miles than 100 and a bit less at interstate speeds.

With a 20A outlet, you can bump that up to 14% and closer to 40 miles.

The Model S and X will do worse than this.

Re:Global electric vehicles sales grew 41% in 2020 by addflip on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:17AM (#26982269)
This. Also, don't forget you can always stay at a RV campsite and use their 240v plug to charge your car.