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Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by secondcoming on Thursday April 29, 2021 @05:34AM (#26979044)
Political debate used to have rules. Take this [0] debate between William F Buckley and Noam Chomsky about the Vietman War, for example. The two clearly detested each other but the debate was mostly civil.

Christopher Hitchens' debate are others worth watching.

Does these even happen any more in MSM?

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DvmLMUfGss

Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by amalcon on Thursday April 29, 2021 @07:13AM (#26979676)
Western society seems to have gotten the idea that "debate" is either talking heads trying to shout over each other, presenting prepared arguments to random unprepared people and claiming victory when it takes time to respond, or simply presenting opinions back and forth without trying to justify them. This is tied to the (independent but both incorrect) notions that whoever has the last word in a debate is the winner, and whoever wins the debate is necessarily right.

I think it would be valuable to somehow expose ordinary people to structured competitive debate, if only because it makes many of these falsehoods evident. This kind of debate uses the rules to select the positions of the parties and when they get to speak. Obviously the last speaker doesn't necessarily win, and the winner doesn't necessarily even believe their own position (so the debate doesn't prove that position right). Yet still, it's much better at educating people on the issues than any "debate" that most people have ever watched.

Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by Digory on Thursday April 29, 2021 @10:21AM (#26981511)
Unfortunately, structured competitive debate these days has gone off the rails. At least, college debate in the US has become ridiculous.

Moot court and mock trial retain some semblance of argumentation. But you would have to reinvent the kind of formal debate you’re imagining.

Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by mensetmanusman on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:41AM (#26982585)
It’s hilarious. Robots talking as quickly as possible to gain points.
Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by sixstringtheory on Thursday April 29, 2021 @12:50PM (#26983507)
Strathern’s generalization of Goodhart’s Law at work.

Once a measure becomes a target it ceases to function as a good measure.

Re:New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint... by amalcon on Thursday April 29, 2021 @11:00AM (#26982032)
You may be right; I've been out of that loop for a rather long time now.