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Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by lazulicurio on Saturday April 24, 2021 @09:52AM (#26924833)
FWIW I think that this attitude is at the core of issues such as mass shootings and police violence. That I think it's largely cultural is also why I'm not convinced that gun restrictions will be super-effective at combating it. I think that all humans experience some measure of schadenfreude at seeing people they dislike get a comeuppance, but I don't think that enjoying physical retribution is innate. I remember one year we were over at my sister's house for the holidays and watching A Christmas Story. My 2yo niece was with us on the couch when the scene where Ralphie beats up the bully came on---you could tell that she was horrified whereas noone else seemed to think twice of it. Unfortunately cultural issues are difficult to solve. Christianity brought "turn the other cheek", but 2000 years later look where we are.
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by klmadfejno on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:12AM (#26924946)
> Christianity brought "turn the other cheek", but 2000 years later look where we are.

I've no interest in a debate on religion, but Christianity is the religion that brought "bad people burn in hell for eternity".

Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by lazulicurio on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:35AM (#26925112)
My point wasn't so much that Christianity is a solution, but rather that despite how widespread Christianity became since its founding, one of it's core messages hasn't culturally sunk in.
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by Stupulous on Saturday April 24, 2021 @12:30PM (#26926138)
Christianity doesn't have the power to torture people for eternity, and it does have the power to influence believers towards forgiveness. "Bad people burn in hell" is a reassurance that the universe is just, which further enables forgiveness on earth.
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by supernovae on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:16AM (#26924975)
Since they're borne to sin, they can do whatever they want.. God will forgive them
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by klmadfejno on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:20AM (#26925006)
Genuine question. Does Christian god forgive everyone? Or only the repentant? Or only the baptized-believer-repentent?

If the answer to the first question isn't yes, can you still go to hell with god's forgiveness?

Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by notsuoh on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:39AM (#26925159)
I think it's a little different across sects, but I grew up around a lot of baptists and the line was that anyone who asks was forgiven at any point, so I think this falls into the repentant category, though I don't think it actually requires repent. Lots of tough questions around someone who lives a virtuous life who asked forgiveness at an early age versus an evil person asking for forgiveness on their death bed and them both ending up in the same place.
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by hcrisp on Saturday April 24, 2021 @11:05AM (#26925380)
A verse you might want to consider is "... we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe." My interpretation is that forgiveness is available to all but made effective only in those who respond in faith. The scriptures do not say anything about those who are ignorant about God's salvation.
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Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by lazulicurio on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:39AM (#26925156)
While that is true for certain denominations, it is most definitely not universal[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell

Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by lisper on Saturday April 24, 2021 @10:52AM (#26925263)
I'm an atheist so I don't really have a dog in this particular fight, but Jesus was pretty clear about this:

Mark16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by havernator on Saturday April 24, 2021 @11:35AM (#26925630)
It’s a bit more subtle than that, which is why it’s tricky quoting verses out of context. The question arises in this one “who’s ‘he’”? The previous verse has an answer:

> 15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

So “he” is someone who’s been exposed to the gospel.

On this basis, many Christians believe that those who’ve not been exposed to the gospel (the degree of exposure that counts seems a point of disagreement) may still go to heaven.

Notably, it’s not 100% clear (here, anyway) this doesn’t just mean those to whom Jesus’ direct disciples preach. It also promises they’ll be accompanied by a whole mess o’ very clear miracles wherever they go, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the case these days (or then, but you know what I mean). The expectations for those who are presented with proof in the form of Jesus-wizards, and those who chat with a preacher in line at Wal-Mart, might reasonably be very different.

(Not a believer, for the record)

Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by loeg on Saturday April 24, 2021 @11:10AM (#26925411)
Not all Christian sects (nor individual Christians) are textual literalists. (Probably most aren't, with respect to arbitrary single verses. There's a lot of random crap in there. E.g., https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_ch... )
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by lisper on Saturday April 24, 2021 @11:15AM (#26925467)
I didn't say they were. I just said that Jesus was pretty clear about this.
Re:The Girl in the Kent State Photo by loeg on Saturday April 24, 2021 @11:20AM (#26925504)
Sure. Even that is somewhat debatable; Mark wasn't written until 3-4 decades after Jesus' death.[0]

> The Church has consequently derived its view of Jesus primarily from Matthew, secondarily from John, and only distantly from Mark.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark