News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asjdflakjsdf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:30AM (#26886816)
Ethereum is quite exciting in that regard, but my feeling is that most eth enthusiasts don't actually care about that. They only care about the value and thus it has become another crypto pyramid scheme for now.

The only crypto community who has shown any genuine effort in creating a "currency" is Dogecoin. And that is mainly because they are more aware that their coin has no value without real adoption. But sadly, even that has been infested with the pyramid scheme HODLers after the recent surge in value.

Another problem with Eth is that regular folk are thrown off when they hear things like "smart contracts", "NFT" etc.. So, in terms of a realistic crypto "currency" having widespread adoption, it seems hard to justify any of them at the moment.

I love using crypto for payments as it can be incredibly simple when done right. I really hope to see a crypto that works toward distributing wealth and opportunity though rather than the toxic crypto culture of HODlers we see today!

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by nathias on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:45AM (#26886904)
How do you define a pyramid scheme? Thing go up in value?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by mratsim on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @10:05AM (#26889849)
A Ponzi is when the returns of early investors are "sustained" by the flux of new investors.

A cashflow producing venture is not a Ponzi since that cashflow is supposed to ensure the returns of all investors.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by skybrian on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:48PM (#26892102)
The problem with this definition is that it’s normal and legitimate for later investors to buy out early investors. You need to know more about what’s really going on to tell whether it’s a fraud or not.

Recommended reading: Lying for Money: How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of Our World

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asjdflakjsdf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:51AM (#26886947)
I'd basically see it as an investment opportunity that greatly favours early adopters.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:00PM (#26891385)
By this defintion any investment is a pyramid scheme. Even savings accounts give the greatest return to those who start early.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by dmihal on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:38AM (#26887712)
Which investment opportunities don't favor early adopters?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by inter_netuser on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:58AM (#26886996)
70% of ethereum was sold at rock bottom prices to "early adopters" in a presale.

You are right. It is a ponzi.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asenna on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:21AM (#26888083)
Most of the early investors (very early, startup phase) of Amazon and Apple got shares in the company at rock bottom prices. Does that make them a ponzi scheme?
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by ZitchDog on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:10AM (#26887074)
It must also be unsustainable without new entrants.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by nathias on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:21AM (#26887573)
I hope you then also count stocks, land ownership etc. as such.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by asjdflakjsdf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:33AM (#26887676)
to a degree but not so much. Land has real value. Stocks are different again. The idea that eth is considered more of a stock than a currency is the root of its problems imo. I have a real itch to one day see a crypto being widely adapted as an actual currency. I think dogecoin is the only one in our current crypto eco-system that has even a fraction of a chance in filling that space. I'm sure it will happen some day, but maybe not with our current crop of cryptos.
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by nathias on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @06:38AM (#26887710)
Yea, ETH is more like a stock of the biggest crypto lab, its kind of the Apple of crypto (in the way it transferred innovation happening in a field under into its own garden). I think we will see a currency widely adopted, and its going to be BTC or BTC-based (fractional banking but with crypto).
Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by matheusmoreira on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:06PM (#26891470)
> I have a real itch to one day see a crypto being widely adapted as an actual currency.

Monero is closest to achieving the original cryptocurrency dream. Private and anonymous transactions, good speeds, low fees, ASIC and GPU resistance, committed developers that are actually improving the coin over time, open source wallets even on mobile.

> I think dogecoin is the only one in our current crypto eco-system that has even a fraction of a chance in filling that space.

Why do you say that?

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by cryptica on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:58AM (#26886997)
There is no doubt that it's a pyramid scheme.

Everything is a pyramid scheme these days including the entire stock market (especially big tech).

But the modern monetary system is designed to sustain such pyramid schemes. It can keep them going forever. No matter how much net value they destroy; it will offload the costs to fiat salary earners who accept fiat currencies.

TBH I'm confused how the world economy is able to keep running at all with all these extreme inefficiencies everywhere.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by inter_netuser on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @05:34AM (#26887270)
Sooner or later it will have to end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsky_moment

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by cryptica on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @12:56PM (#26892222)
I don't think so because the entire stock market would collapse if the reserve banks stopped printing money.

Smart people look at Bitcoin and Ethereum and think "wow that's inefficient, if the banks raise interest rates, they're going to get wiped out" but they don't realize that most corporations are just as capital inefficient and are in the same position. They are both unprofitable, therefore both worthless... Does it matter that one may be slightly less worthless than the other? The intrinsic market cap (if we had a free market) would be less than 0 in both cases.

Re:Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf] by cryptica on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @07:28PM (#26896682)
Not sure why this is being downvoted.

Before the pandemic, the Fed tried to wipe out the crypto space by raising interest rates... Then when they realized that their policies were threatening to take out the entire stock market instead, they decided to suddenly drop interest rates back to 0.

It seems like the Fed was trying to find a sweet spot of interest rates which would wipe out all speculative investments but would allow non-speculative investments to stay afloat... They simply didn't anticipate that stocks might be more speculative than crypto.