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Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by colejohnson66 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @02:55PM (#26729323)
The claims of "cancel culture" may well be from people who should be "shunned from society" (as some would say), but it's very true that some people (definitely not all) "practicing" cancel culture can have a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset. Being correct often does not mean you're always correct; The left is not immune from hiveminding.

I say this as a left leaning person.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by adzzzz on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:46PM (#26731006)
It's not even left leaning thinking. It's just socially extremely progressive neo liberalism. Most marxists would be aghast at the idea of siding with giant corporations to unperson and deny dignity to an individual with a non mainstream political opinion or what have you.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by Veen on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @02:57PM (#26729363)
Yes, mob justice and public humiliation are very useful when people do and think things you don't like. Just what we need to deeply heal our damaged society.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by Bud on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:34PM (#26729955)
Except there was no "mob justice" here; you are overreacting and using terms that should be reserved for violent consequences in situations that do not justify such words.

I understand why you have to exaggerate, though.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by Veen on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @03:53PM (#26730233)
And I can understand why you have to minimize. Although, I don't understand how anyone fails to fear the consequences of "people being held accountable by society for their conduct"β€”an idea that gladdens the hearts of authoritarians, sectarians, and zealots who are absolutely convinced of their righteousness and moral superiority. It will not result in healing, but in deeper division and ever greater polarization. Healing starts with forgiveness and compassion, not with insults, firings, banishments, purity spirals, and language policing.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by Bud on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:09PM (#26730485)
I would say that a compromise position can be found.

Certainly I join in your healthy fears of some misguided actions which have been attributed to "cancel culture". And I also concede that there have been quite a few such actions.

However, I'd also ask that you recognize that many of the reactions and consequences attributed to "cancel culture" have been entirely justified, and appropriate, and have resulted in overall good outcomes to society.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by neither_color on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:39PM (#26730906)
You don't wait for a violent consequence you prevent it. In classical realism or game theory you prepare your defenses according to what your adversary COULD do, not what you think they're going to do. Any and all pushback against giving tech companies the power to do something awful they haven't done yet and may never do is justified. You don't just roll over and say "oh, don't worry, it'll be fine they'd never do that."
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by ttt0 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:26PM (#26731570)
There is nothing useful or healing about it. You can do that to a single person, not to a half of your country.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by saul_goodman on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:12PM (#26730526)
No one understands the true nature of the "woke mob" and "cancel culture" until several thousand people on the interwebs threaten to have you fired, shot, and your family murdered because of a simple mis-understanding. Until this happens to all the virtue-signaling crusaders out there they will continue to claim cancel culture doesn't exist, that only the racists, white supremacists, and "people who deserved it" have this happen to them.

It's not possible to apologize in these cases as if you admit any culpability it WILL be used against you to do as much additional damage as can be done. You can't backtrack, you must simply weather the storm and hope your employer who's known you much longer than a pack of wild woke-mobbers will give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assume that you eat minority children for breakfast.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by subjectsigma on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:21PM (#26731502)
https://www.businessinsider.com/barack-obama-slams-call-out-...

> Former President Barack Obama derided "call-out culture" in a speech at the Obama Foundation summit on Tuesday, saying achieving real change was more complex than being "as judgmental as possible."

> "That is not activism," he concluded. "That is not bringing about change. If all you're doing is casting stones, you are probably not going to get that far."

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by adzzzz on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:34PM (#26730842)
There was no "red scare". Joe McCarthy was simply holding Communists accountable for their beliefs.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by BitwiseFool on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:47PM (#26731026)
This is such an apt retort that I'm sure people are downvoting you out of pure cognitive dissonance.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by happytoexplain on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:06PM (#26814691)
Why can't they just disagree with the analogy? After all, analogies are inherently a comparison of two different things. People are prone to reaching for analogies as essentially just an insulting oversimplification, by pointing to something Very Bad (frequently a dramatic historical horror) and simply declaring that it is equivalent to whatever they're criticizing. Part of the allure is the positive feedback back-patting that frequently comes with it, without adding anything else (e.g. your reply, and the "insanely apt" reply from a now-banned account).

Regardless, it's destructive to reasoned discourse to treat people like enemies ("cognitive dissonance" is being used as an insult here) when the only thing you know is that they disagreed with you.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by ta20210405 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:49PM (#26732553)
It's insanely apt and spot on. I'm going to be using it from now on.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:05PM (#26732020)
He's being down-voted because it's whataboutism. It's no different than the 50 Cent Army that suddenly cares about Native Americans when the topic of the Uyghurs comes up. Yes, the red scare was bad, yes the US's treatment of indigenous people was bad. Everyone agrees about this. There's no school district in the US that uses a history textbook that says the Sioux deserved it and McCarthy had the right idea. The fact that similiar bad things happened in the past does not excuse them in the present. If anything it makes it more reprehensible that they happen today despite the example of what to do.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by BitwiseFool on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:16PM (#26732163)
Whataboutism can sometimes be a valid declaration of hypocrisy.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:26PM (#26732290)
But there's no hypocrisy. Nobody is saying McCarthy was right or endorsing his tactics.

Edit: It appears I may have misinterpreted the initial comments sarcasm as a "if McCarthy could do it then it's fair game" rather than a criticism of modern outrage mob tactics.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by kansface on Thursday April 08, 2021 @03:28PM (#26742715)
Plenty of people in this thread have effectively endorsed McCarthyism. You don't have to look far - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26730485
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by a1369209993 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:32PM (#26732336)
> Nobody is saying McCarthy was right or endorsing his tactics.

You are correct that they are in fact not saying that; the hypocrisy is in then turning around and saying that cancel culture is right and endorsing their tactics.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by BitwiseFool on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:34PM (#26732361)
I don't understand where you're coming from because I absolutely see the woke crowd using McCarthyite tactics.
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Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by edmundsauto on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:03PM (#26731246)
It's also nothing new. Consider the Congressional hearings about rock and roll in the 80s[0], or other moral panics like Prohibition. Anti-abortion groups are a particularly vile form of cancel culture. Politicians will be silently cancelled (not elected) for not publicly pretending to believe in the right sky fairie.

Societies have always shut down behavior and media they collectively find inappropriate. There's no need to track this as anything other than a continuation in a long history of collective groups of humans doing what they do.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OceijOEVqU

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by a1369209993 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:36PM (#26732392)
> There's no need to track this as anything other than a continuation in a long history of collective groups of humans doing what they do.

That's fair and accurate as far as it goes, but it doesn't really negate the need to oppose this particular continuation of said history, any more than it negated the need to oppose eg Prohibition or the Spanish Inquision when those were happening.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by edmundsauto on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @07:08PM (#26732753)
There is a need to negate the narrative attributed to the phrase "cancel culture" - said narrative is that liberals are censoring conservative voices. (IE, it's often discussed as a directional issue, and not a systemic one.)
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by a1369209993 on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @09:15PM (#26733889)
Actually I don't really care about conservatives getting censored[0]. I care about decent people, the ones who are not liberals or conservatives[1], getting censored or otherwise attacked for not supporting liberals (or McCarthists, or Christians, or whoever happens to be popular at the time).

0: except in a "huh, the canary just died" kind of way.

1: or whoever happens to be popular at the time.

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by edmundsauto on Friday April 09, 2021 @02:30PM (#26754186)
Ah, in that case, one small bit of feedback - you might find a new term, rather than "cancel culture". To my understanding, that is a rallying cry for the American right wing. Specifically, it seems to be a criticism of a situation where private businesses decide what behavior is disallowed on their platform, especially when the violating entity is a conservative.
Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by a1369209993 on Friday April 09, 2021 @02:59PM (#26754606)
> a situation where private businesses [and the outrage mobs they listen to] decide what behavior is disallowed on their platform

Yes, that's (a significant part of) what I'm referring to.

> rather than "cancel culture"

Actually, I generally call it "social justice".

Re:Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs... by chrismcb on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @04:58PM (#26731165)
Cancel Culture is not deliberately misleading, unless you think it is ok to lose your job because you cracked your knuckles. Being held accountable by society is one thing, losing your livelihood is another. Most major crimes have a statue of limitations, but cancel culture doesn't. If you said something 10 years ago, that is enough that apparently you should never work again. Is that the kind of accountability we want? One person asked me, why should someone keep their job who doesn't believe in Sandy Hook? Why should they lose their job because of their belief? The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Look at the recent Madorlorian firings. One person says we are going down a dark path, and is fire. Meanwhile her corworker likens American to nazis (using photos from a different country) and he keeps his job.

So no, it isn't a way to describe people behing held accountable. It is a thing that is going on, by a small group to get rid of people that they don't like. It is abhorrent, and it is very toxic. It is most definitely not how society is supposed to work. I may not like what you have to say, but I will fight for your right to say it, and "sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is how society is supposed to work.