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Re:The antidote to civilisational collapse – An interview wi... by watwut on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:03AM (#26722085)
I wonder why this is downvoted so much. My reaction was exactly the same - ignoring very real violence and threats of it the regime relied on. It did a lot to keep potential discontent under check. It was milder in the 80ties then before, yes. But it was definitely factor.

And I think that this is general mistake people from human rights mostly respecting places do when they talk about oppressive systems. They completely ignore how large the actual danger can be and how it shapes not just the culture, but also the possibilities people have.

Re:The antidote to civilisational collapse – An interview wi... by luckylion on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:41AM (#26722442)
> I wonder why this is downvoted so much.

I believe that it's a preference for "oh, that's interesting" explanations. "No, it wasn't a complex system of propaganda and psychology, it was mostly guns and labor camps" is a simple explanation that's less entertaining and evokes rejection.

Re:The antidote to civilisational collapse – An interview wi... by watwut on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @05:49AM (#26722520)
I mean ... it was complex system and did not functioned in a simple way. Guns and labor camps played the role, but the propaganda did too. But also stuff like "you kids wont be able to go to college" or "you will get only really bad jobs" or "we will regularly harass you" or "people will be afraid to socialize with you".

And stuff like "still being traumatized from having relative taken away or from being arrested 10 years ago". It is complex, just darker and less facile, less directly comparable.

Re:The antidote to civilisational collapse – An interview wi... by luckylion on Wednesday April 07, 2021 @06:20AM (#26722753)
Definitely, but in the end it came down to guns and labor camps. Propaganda and other "softer" ways of forcing people to comply are added so you don't have to execute/exile quite as many people, but if you only have propaganda and no guns & gulags, you're not getting anywhere -- who'd relocate just because you say so if they know you can't make them and there is no "or else"?

You can build upon guns with multiple layers so that, eventually, a word is enough to control people, but they have to trust that the word is, in the end, backed by a gun. That is, if you don't comply when you hear that word, you'll get into even more trouble with the letter that follows, and if you ignore that as well, they will physically show up and take you away. If you're not cooperative in the talk that follows, you'll get to see the window-less rooms, and if you don't break there, you go to the camp. If you break that chain, the word means nothing.