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Re:Money and Investing (1996) by 300bps on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:27AM (#26635708)
Historical price-earnings ratios for common stocks have averaged 15. At the peak of the late 1990s bubble, P/E ratios reached 42.

Interestingly, the P/E ratio of the S&P 500 right now is 40.30.

https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-ratio

https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-ratio/table/by-month

Re:Money and Investing (1996) by JohnJamesRambo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:47AM (#26636014)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-12/warren-bu...

This metric is awful as well. I'm out of stocks and will be for quite some time.

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iDFYG8plPsz...

That graph says it all.

Re:Money and Investing (1996) by kqr on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @01:43PM (#26637750)
If you really believe this will not keep going up, why aren't you short the market?

(Genuine interest: I also debated exiting but then remembered the thing risk takers say about careful deliberation followed by fearless execution and I now have net negative equity exposure.)

Re:Money and Investing (1996) by JohnJamesRambo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @07:36PM (#26641879)
If I'm wrong and the market keeps going up, I just miss out on some gains. If I short and the market keeps going up, I actually start losing capital (probably rapidly).
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by kqr on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @03:40AM (#26644486)
Ah, that makes sense. So it's not really that you think markets will not go up, and more about no longer thinking markets will not go down? (That is a complicated sentence but also the simplest I was able to make it after several attempts.)
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by georgeecollins on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:59PM (#26639636)
Did you actually read this article? Please read the part about the problems with short selling.
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by kqr on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @04:38AM (#26644850)
I did. The example showed many problems:

1. Any time you make a risky investment (and this includes low-cost index funds) you should make it based on a falsifiable trading hypothesis specified in advance. E.g. "if Microsoft gets valued over $25, I should realise that I got either the direction or the timing of this one wrong and close the position, profit or loss."

2. Again, in advance, formulate a more general drawdown policy to gradually decrease the size of your losing positions.

3. Not ever make risky investments with anything that approaches your entire wealth.

My bearish position is not going to throw me into debt even in the worst case. And the EMH, in a sense, guarantees that less commissions, this bet (as would any bet) is on average going to get me my wager back.

So the question that remains is why I think the long-term average return is an unusually bad approximation for the near future. I could argue fundamentals, I could argue technical analysis, but it'd all be bunk.

I can list other reasons, too. Many big investors are short the market. My employment is long the market, so my capital being short it is sort of a hedge.

I can also list reasons it might be a bad idea. They don't weigh as much in my mind, of course.

In the end, I just don't know. I'm fully aware that I might have either direction or timing fully wrong. Most likely I do. But it seems to me like a low risk bet with potentially fairly good payoff.

Re:Money and Investing (1996) by tertius on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:50PM (#26639512)
Too risky?
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by odonnellryan on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:37PM (#26636803)
When did you exit?
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by JohnJamesRambo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @07:39PM (#26641902)
About July 2019 and I quit my job and transferred my whole retirement portfolio into Bitcoin. I think it has gone up ~600% since then, so it has gone quite well. Bitcoin will peak this year and then I don't know what to put the money into. Certainly not stocks at this point in time. Maybe just sit in a stablecoin earning interest (you can get 8.6% sitting in Gemini USD on Blockfi) and wait and see what happens in a year with all markets.
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by tofurocks on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @02:47AM (#26644201)
Isn't the extremely high stablecoin interest only because we are in a bull run and there is a high demand for long leverage ? You can make 20%+ shorting bitcoin futures 1x on bitmex or ftt right now, but those returns don't last when the price is not exploding upwards..
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by psadri on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:43AM (#26635946)
It seems that interest rate x P/E is a ~constant. Interest rates are near historical lows and have been falling. Therefore P/Es are high. Have to check if this relationship holds through the ages.
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by fbelzile on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:07PM (#26636334)
Low interest rates definitely helped in the last few decades. Recently, yields have been rising though, which created some choppiness in the market. I think one of the main reasons the market hasn't responded in a big way yet is money supply: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

The money being printed has got to go somewhere and a 1% return in the stock market (with high PE) is still worth more than a negative real rate accounting for inflation.

Re:Money and Investing (1996) by dehrmann on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:47PM (#26636974)
I tend to ignore P/E as a long-term, absolute metric because 1) it doesn't account for cash on-hand 2) it ignores expected growth 3) it ignores interest rates.
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by FL33TW00D on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:15PM (#26636456)
The Shiller CAPE is probably a better metric for judging the S&P: https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe
Re:Money and Investing (1996) by riffraff on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @01:56PM (#26637932)
Notice Shiller has a more interesting metric, Excess CAPE yield, which also accounts for interest rates[0]. It gives a less negative view of the current equities market, but still shows it as expensive.

[0] https://fortune.com/2021/01/25/stock-market-value-metric-rob...