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Re:Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time by elcritch on Monday March 29, 2021 @12:50PM (#26624635)
You make strong assertions that would be difficult to prove in general and based on a lot of assumptions (e.g. that materialistic reductionism is the only accurate worldview). I believe the viewpoint you espouse that religious people have broken reasoning is bit myopic in understanding human rationality and intellectual pursuits as well. Humans are complicated as is our understanding of reality we all share.

Good counterpoints are people like Donald E. Knuth, who is a preeminent mathematician, Turing Award recipient, and also a devout Lutheran [1]. He gave a talk on science and religion at Google even that gives a more nuanced view on science and religion [2]. There's also Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome project who is a devout Christian as well. Other non-western examples include Ramanujan who attributed his mathematics to "divinity" [3]. Of course otherwise rational scientists can also become besot with irrational pursuits and beliefs, like Linus Pauling obessions with Vitamin C [4].

More broadly the religious concepts implicit in the Judeo-Christian creation mythos (and other major world religions) also encourage (in many scholars opinions and mine as well) a view that the world is a result of rational thought and not purely a choatic war that man happens to be besot by and perhaps might survive. For example compare the differences of Genesis to the Enuma Elish "There is no suggestion of any primordial battle or internecine war which eventually led to the creation of the universe. The one God is above the whole of nature, which He Himself created by His own absolute will. The primeval water, earth, sky, and luminaries are not pictured as deities or as parts of disembodied deities, but are all parts of the manifold works of the Creator. Man, in turn, is not conceived of as an afterthought, as in Enuma Elish, but rather as the pinnacle of creation." [5]. It's my belief that the inception of science (not mere technologists vs philosophers as the ancient Greeks or Romans had) is encouraged by a societal belief that the world has rational underpinnings and isn't just mad chaos.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPpk-1btGZk 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan 4: https://quackwatch.org/related/pauling/ 5: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/creation-and-cosmogony-...

Re:Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time by fossuser on Monday March 29, 2021 @01:27PM (#26625247)
I don't mean to imply that a religious person can't be outlier smart in other ways (Knuth being a great example but there are many others), but that doesn't mean something isn't broken with their world view. People are wildly inconsistent by default (myself included) and it takes great effort to try and recognize these kinds of failures in order to correct them.

In fact, the smarter the person is - the more complex their rationalizations typically are.

As far as finding major religions support a rational world view, it's too easy to cherry pick religious text examples to support anything so I won't do that here. I'll just say that while I'd like that to be true, I think that it's not.

Re:Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time by elcritch on Monday March 29, 2021 @01:50PM (#26625586)
Your comment does directly imply that you don't trust their overall decision making and/or rationality based on your personal worldview. I believe that's bordering on a vary narrow and limiting view of human rationality, culture, and worldviews. Though yes I would agree with you to an extent as overly dogmatic religious beliefs leave little for other viewpoints or venues of thought as well.

> it's too easy to cherry pick religious text examples to support anything

Certainly it's easy to cherry pick religious texts -- though there is some serious non-religious scholarly works in these areas as well but it's an area fraught with assumptions. The point being that it's not completely unreasonable to argue that (some) major world religions do promote aspects of rational worldviews (those being an orderly universe governed by knowable discernible rules). Perhaps your rationalistic or atheistic worldview is more correct but as with the view that certain religions promote rationality, that argument is fraught with challenges as well. That's my primary point.