Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Saturday March 27, 2021 @12:36AM
(#26599954)
It's a commons problem; voluntary membership means free-riders will destroy the collective resource.
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Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by fastball on Saturday March 27, 2021 @12:52AM
(#26600013)
Except "my labor" is not a collective resource, so it's not really a tragedy of the commons situation.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Saturday March 27, 2021 @02:05AM
(#26600305)
The labor isn't the collective resource. It's the negotiating power.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by fastball on Saturday March 27, 2021 @12:37PM
(#26603535)
The negotiating power only exists because of my participation. I am not destroying something that would exist anyway by my lack of participation.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Saturday March 27, 2021 @01:57PM
(#26604055)
Workers are weaker when scabs undermine their collective bargaining power.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by fastball on Saturday March 27, 2021 @06:20PM
(#26606133)
Yes, when someone doesn't join your cause, you are generally going to be weaker. That's kinda how it works. Doesn't make it a tragedy of the commons though.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Saturday March 27, 2021 @07:30PM
(#26606595)
I think you're missing part of the story.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by fastball on Sunday March 28, 2021 @11:11AM
(#26611000)
Which part?
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by sjwright on Saturday March 27, 2021 @09:47AM
(#26602254)
Is that sufficient reason to coerce others to participate? Why should people who want to collectively bargain have a veto over the people who don’t want that?
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Saturday March 27, 2021 @02:02PM
(#26604087)
The other side of the coin is why should people who don't want to collectively bargain have a veto over the people who do? (Since that's what happens when management can circumvent the union -- the union loses its bargaining power.)
As for how to choose, I'm not sure.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by sjwright on Sunday March 28, 2021 @03:20AM
(#26608623)
It is unreasonable to equate imposing something upon others and "imposing" nothing upon others. When all else is equal, the higher bar ought to be placed upon the imposition of additional layers of bureaucracy in other people's lives.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by neolog on Sunday March 28, 2021 @02:59PM
(#26613114)
But all else is not equal. Unionized negotiations change a lot of things.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by sjwright on Sunday March 28, 2021 @08:08PM
(#26616221)
It's easy to see all the change caused by a union; it's harder to see all the change that didn't happen because of the union.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by r0p3 on Saturday March 27, 2021 @10:32AM
(#26602532)
Why is it coercive to have to join a union to work somewhere? Work somewhere else. If that sounds coercive then so should having to work at tesla to begin with. I think wage labor is always a bit coercive but I don't see how having to join a union to work somewhere is worse. And it solves the free rider problem.
Re:Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U...
by sjwright on Sunday March 28, 2021 @03:13AM
(#26608604)
I agree with you in the case where a union was already in place when you joined. I'm talking about the situation where a new union is proposed in your current workplace.
> Work somewhere else.
You could equally say to any workers at Tesla who want to establish a union. Work somewhere else.