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Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by samuelbalogh on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:06AM (#26540943)
I 100% agree.

Even after the swine flu, bird flu, SARS, MERS, covid, HIV and other viruses, we are still keeping animals in confined spaces, butchering them and selling their meat on markets so we can consume parts of their dead bodies, hurting our planet and ourselves in the process.

It's a grim side of humanity.

edit: prions too, not just viruses.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by klmadfejno on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:15AM (#26541084)
You could start by not representing people who eat meat as stereotypical fat redneck americans, which, in addition to just being baseline offensive, is hardly a dominant trait among people who eat meat.
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:40AM (#26542376)
Some of my extended family raise longhorns in Texas for tax dodge ("working farm") and social validation reasons. They are definitely obese, redneck Americans who chew tobacco and are months away from their latest stroke, heart attack, and/or cancer.
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by klmadfejno on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:32PM (#26543095)
That's great for you. However, your extended longhorn family is not the only group of people that eats meat, and you come across poorly for making a straw man portrayal otherwise.
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by 52-6F-62 on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:32AM (#26541364)
I question whether people who make such remarks have ever met a farmer.

I really dislike this method of trying to attain one's vision; wantonly throwing around absolutes and creating enemies out of neighbours. It's hubris personified.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by fastball on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:03AM (#26540903)
What if you: feed them algae, don't deforest, and don't give them antibiotics unless absolutely necessary?
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:19AM (#26542072)
Where would the land come from to grow all of the grain required to feed 10 billion people Big Macs? Meat ag doesn't scale sustainably. See also: CAFOs.
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by fastball on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:28AM (#26542196)
Sure, and no CAFOs (which is somewhat a given/necessary if you're not abusing antibiotics). So grass-and-algae-fed beef in regions where growing crops for human consumption is not very viable, because not everything grows everywhere and because humans (unlike cattle) do not have 4 stomachs with which to process plants that are not particularly nutritious.

Additionally, are you implying that anyone is suggesting beef should be the primary food source for 10B people? Because I've never seen anyone make that claim. You didn't say "how about we reduce meat ag and use something more scalable for feeding most people", which is a stance I agree with. Instead, you said "how about eliminating meat ag altogether", which is what I was replying to.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by ReadFList on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:17AM (#26541112)
How about we keep eating locally produced meat because it's healthy, far more than those "fake" meats that are no more than vegetable oils, estrogen from soy and the likes, and chemicals to add flavour, and instead reduce waste? Do you really think that the increase in vegetable prodution would not have any environmental impact? We grow them out of the air?

And ICE should continue to exist to make sure we stop at the border all those who break the law to try to entering a country. No country owes any right to foreigners to enter illegally. Let them fix their countries first :)

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by samuelbalogh on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:43AM (#26541503)
Eating local doesn't even make a dent in reducing your carbon footprint.

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by etu on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:29AM (#26541309)
Soy doesn't contain estrogen, it contains phytoestrogen which looks very much like estrogen but actually has the opposite effect and block "real" estrogen. Phytoestrogen can help to lower estrogen levels.

Do you know where real estrogen comes from? Female animals. Do you know the gender of basically all meat/egg/milk products comes from? Females. So that's where your estrogen comes from.

Not from Soy.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by paulcole on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:21AM (#26541194)
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/

> Results of recent population studies suggest that soy has either a beneficial or neutral effect on various health conditions

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by jamesgreenleaf on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:16AM (#26541093)
You're essentially correct, and (I think) being downvoted for the tone of your rhetoric, which could be phrased in a more pleasing and convincing way. Also, most of us do love cheeseburgers, unhealthy though they may be.

Either way, humanity hasn't matured enough for this viewpoint to be considered common sense. Give us another few centuries.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:30AM (#26542219)
The truth is painful and people will never listen because it threatens their identity and their lifestyle, so it doesn't matter how it's phrased. Only top-down mandates, unlike democratic processes, can solve climate change. I hope China threatens every country with obliteration unless they meet net carbon negative goals and participate in international CCS efforts to reduce GHGs immediately. No other mechanism will work because 99.9% of the planet aren't wise enough to save their own children. Those who prevent or avoid climate change GHG reductions are tantamount to firing guns at everyone else. And what do you do with someone who is trying to kill you and your family?
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by peytn on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:06PM (#26542727)
That’s not necessarily the truth. It’s more of a hypothesis or opinion.

In any case, enforcement of anything will require boots on the ground (or boots programming and building the drones). So you’ll have to convince the unwise 99.9% of something. Unilateral climate rescue by the enlightened 0.1% is, to me, a fantasy, as is anybody listening to threats by the Chinese government. They already do a lot of threatening.

In my opinion, this line of thinking will inevitably be hijacked to commit genocide so some group or groups can stay in power.

Would be nice to find another way.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by HDMI_Cable on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#26540967)
To be fair, improving ICEs have been a massive help for mitigating climate change. Going from 60s muscle cars to current day hybrids has undoubtedly helped with NOx emissions.

Adding algae to feed might not get rid of meat production altogether, but it is a good transitional step.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by Robotbeat on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:17AM (#26541114)
I suppose, but it has also enabled larger and larger vehicles compared to the small vehicles of the late 70s. SUVs have never been more popular.

To defeat Jevons Paradox (where greater efficiency just means more of the thing is consumed, making it potentially even worse than before), you gotta electrify everything. Perhaps even meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:44AM (#26542430)
SUVs are the dominant vehicles produced in the US. Many small- and mid-sized car lines have ceases production.

Tax engine displacement into oblivion and then require EVs.

Similarly, tax meat ag into oblivion and then outlaw it.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by Robotbeat on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:58PM (#26543454)
The best way to do it for cars IMHO is to add SUVs (etc) to the EPA fuel economy standards, double the minimum efficiency standard, and adjust the penalties for inflation from when it was first introduced. The EPA fuel economy standards actually poll really well (compared to gas taxes).

Then, like you say, require EVs as soon as possible.

In more detail, I’d say reinstate the EV credit, but make it per-mile range instead of per kWh (and make the benefits for the first 50 miles like 3-4x that for the next 200 miles... and make the latter credit only eligible if there’s 100kW charging capability... and make the total incentive up to $10,000, which is roughly the inflation adjusted original EV credit). Then after 4-5 years, require all new cars/trucks to at least have a plug, followed by all new cars/trucks having to be pure electric 5 years after that. Adjust the credits for inflation and simultaneously Phase out the credits for plugs once they’re required and then pure electric once that is required. Once most vehicles on the road have a plug, introduce higher carbon tax on fuel until it reaches at least $1-2/gallon (and then require all fuel to be synthesized for direct air capture CO2). After 15 years of the first mandate, start outlawing internal combustion engine vehicles on the road or requiring punitive registration fees. And transition road taxes to miles and weight-based about 5-10 years after the mandates start to bite. Keep electricity prices low by subsidizing clean electricity and then ratcheting up the CO2 taxes.

The aim should be to provide a strong carrot incentive well before a stick incentive. Carrots pill better than sticks. And the stick incentives don’t get enough political support until they only apply to a minority of people.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by rebuilder on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:03AM (#26540897)
The devil is in the details, like: how do you get it done?
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by samuelbalogh on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#26540971)
Use the soy we are feeding cattle to feed humans directly. Cut out the middleman - lots of resources freed up all of a sudden.

Keep subsidies to beef low and increase subsidies for plant protein (peas, beans, soy).

Encourage healthy plant-based diets all over the world.

Profit from the vast areas saved to start reforestation projects.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:37AM (#26542335)
Why not tax meat into oblivion?
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by samuelbalogh on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:49PM (#26546797)
That would possibly be a solution, but alas I don't think it's going to happen anywhere soon.
Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by j-pb on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#26540965)
You mean convince people to stop eating meat?

It's already happening. At least in germany the number of vegan meat alternatives has exploded.

These used to be niche products, you could only get in specialty stores. Now there's whole supermarked isles dedicated to them.

The solution is pretty simple.

Stop subsidizing meat and diary farmers. Stop their lobbying, which results in ridiculous laws like the ones in the EU, where you're not allowed to call Almond-milk Almond-milk, because the diary lobbied for "milk" to be a protected term.

Put that money into vegan alternatives, and people will buy them automatically.

Re:Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by ov... by airhead969 on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:35AM (#26542303)
There is limited progress in terms of store representation, but it's not nearly fast or complete enough. It has to be mandated to stop it because there are too many "no mask, anti vaxx" people who will never stop using it like sugar of lead, DDT, asbestos, PTFE, or leaded gasoline.

"Almond milk" grow of almonds is a waste of water in water-scarce areas. Also, compounds in almonds bind to testosterone. It's a very wasteful product.