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Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by sneak on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:34AM (#26539913)
This is true of electrical power outlets (15A/20A), HDMI, schrader valves, RJ45 (this one especially!), and many other things in life, and I don't think it's very fair to pick on USB-C in this manner when it does so many other things much better than previous alternatives.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by unwind on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:41AM (#26539987)
But the point is that USB was introduced more or less on the promise of not being like that. When USB 1.1 came in the late 90s, it was pretty nice. Lots of different ports and cables went away, and all were replaced by standardized USB ports and cables.

You could geek out and learn the difference of upstream (A, host) and downstream (B, device) ports, the various types of B port sizes, and that was it. Later USB 2.0 was introduced and just (bam!) made it all 40 times faster, but it still logically worked pretty much the same.

Then USB 3.x came and just blew all that to h-ll, which is frustrating for both old bearded geeks, and* new/non-technical users.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mminer237 on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:09AM (#26540260)
For consumers, wasn't USB 3.0 just USB 2.0 but a few times faster? USB-C is what is confusing to some people. Replacing micro USB was straightforward enough, but replacing USB-A is a rough process.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by tsbinz on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:30AM (#26540500)
USB 3 is also what kills your wifi if things aren't properly done (e.g. https://medium.com/ghostbar/your-usb-3-0-hub-is-killing-your... - and it's not only a mac problem), so it's not just 2.0 but faster.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mumblemumble on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:10AM (#26540275)
I guess?

Except that my desk has three USB cords, each with a color-coded label so that I can tell what each one is for. One is seemingly the only one that will charge my e-reader, but only does low speed data transmission so it never really gets used for anything but my e-reader. Another is power only and therefore useful for charging devices without my computer attempting to talk to them. And a third is a proper, modern (ish, I suppose), well-behaved USB 2.0 cable.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mauvehaus on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:37AM (#26540581)
There are actually different connectors for 15 and 20 amp devices in the US under NEMA.

You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications, but that's probably because most appliances don't require 20 amps. A 5-15 connector has two vertical prongs, a 5-20 has a horizontal and a vertical, with the special case of receptacles with a T slot that fits both 5-15 and 5-20 plugs.

It goes a bit deeper than that though: A NEMA 6-20 also has a horizontal and vertical prong, but they're reversed from a 5-20 so you can't plug them in in an incompatible (and likely hazardous) way.

The whole standard is really well thought out. I went down the rabbit hole when I got an old table saw with a 6-20 plug and had to figure out what the hell to plug it in to (dryer outlet, via a "custom" extension cord).

I feel like I haven't seen too many uses of Schrader valves that are likely to cause havoc. Most of the use cases for them besides tires are pretty obviously special and distinct from one another. I mean, I'd hope nobody's ever hooked a bike pump up to their air conditioner or a can of R134a to a tire...

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by sneak on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:52AM (#26540759)
> You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications

This is, of course, what I was talking about. I do appreciate the nuances of the 15/20 T-socket and the 6-20/5-20 symmetry; NEMA is super cool (aside from the fact that bladed plugs that aren't twist-lock are sort of lame/less safe in general, at least compared to the UK standard bladed plug). It's a fun rabbit hole to venture down: my occasion was having to adapt straight-blade wall box receptacles that the electrician installed to the twist-lock of the PDUs we had bought.

There's also a fun and confusing mess of competing DC connector standards. I haven't decided what 12/48VDC connectors I'm going to put into my new house build yet (beyond the obviously mandatory 5V USB).

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mauvehaus on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:41PM (#26543993)
That's never bothered me, but I guess I see your point. I always figured that the point of having a 20A circuit with 15A receptacles was so that you can plug in and run two 10A devices without popping the breaker.

Stupid question: are there any common household appliances that draw 20A? I've only ever seen the T receptacles in non-household uses.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by sneak on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:55PM (#26550485)
Window air conditioners, as a sibling dead comment pointed out. You'll commonly see such an outlet below a windowsill in some apartment buildings for this reason.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mindslight on Monday March 22, 2021 @12:04PM (#26542706)
safety nit: By using a dryer circuit (30A), you've got the wrong overcurrent protection on the saw. Which means that some failure modes could overload the saw, but not trip the breaker. The proper ways to do this is to run a new 20A 240V circuit, or to incorporate a subpanel with a 20A breaker into your extension cord. I don't think the risk is severe [0], but you should at least know your setup goes against the electrical code. And that the problem would be more pronounced if you did the same thing with a 40A/50A stove outlet.

FWIW if the nameplate of the motor specifies current draw at 120V, you can likely reconfigure the motor to use 120V instead of 240V.

[0] take a look at the gauge of a dryer's internal wiring, which is regulated by UL/CE and not NEC.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mauvehaus on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:35PM (#26543910)
You raise a couple points I point I hadn't considered.

Rewiring the motor to 115v is probably a no-go, since it's a 3hp motor (continuous), which I believe is more amps at 120v than could be drawn from a normal circuit.

For safety, I'm wondering what kind of faults wouldn't be protected against. The starter has built-in thermal protection (heaters), which should protect the motor from the unlikely use case where I'm pushing the saw too hard, or more likely, a stall on start-up.

The breaker should still protect against shorts. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what other faults could lead to an over current fault that one or the other of those wouldn't catch.

Would anybody care to educate me?

Also: the most dangerous aspect of a table saw is probably not the potential for electrical faults :-)

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by mindslight on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:32PM (#26548943)
3HP is too much for a 120V/20A circuit for sure. Only magic shop vacuums can get >1.5HP out of a standard 120V branch circuit.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a compelling failure mode, given that thermal protector. Perhaps when the rotor locks, the thermal protector has a slower curve than the saw's wiring (which is assumed to be protected by the circuit breaker's curve). I would hope the saw wiring would be a bit oversized such that it too was protected by the motor thermal protection, but without doing an engineering analysis of the saw itself, you don't really know.

Unknown unknowns are my real point though - you're operating outside of the electrical code. Same as if you wired up a workbench of 5-15 receptacles with 10ga and put a 30A breaker on it - realistically it's going to be fine, but we avoid doing this. All those different NEMA plug sizes exist for a reason. 5-15/5-20 is really an anomaly where you can plug the smaller into the bigger, and even there I've got to wonder if eg old table lamps on a nice stiff 20A circuit are a good idea, or if they just haven't been focused on because they're statistically unimportant (see also: strings of Christmas lights with receptacles at the end).

FWIW I'd probably do the same thing you did, but at the cost of making sure I unplugged the saw whenever I was done using it until I made a proper permanent circuit. But that is not professional advice!

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by bellyfullofbac on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:39AM (#26539976)
But USB was supposed to be the unifying connector.

Before: "Here in the back of the computer we have PS/2 ports (1 for keyboard and 1 for mouse), a parallel port, serial, 25-pin serial, game port".

Introducing USB: "Everything is USB now! Plug anything anywhere!"

USB version whatever: "Well the sockets look all the same, but you can only plug your display in here, to charge it you have to connect it here", etc, etc.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by kristiandupont on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:50AM (#26540077)
I am reminded of Einsteins quote about making things as simple as possible but no simpler. I feel that USB-C is an attempt to make things just a bit simpler than possible.

With USB-A and -B, there is a physical indication of the direction of flow (data and/or current). Just "connecting" two things is sometimes unambiguous, but sometimes it's not.

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by thedanbob on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:09AM (#26540265)
From what I remember reading about the spec, USB-C feels like an attempt to make things simpler for users (one plug for everything!) and manufacturers (here's all the things you can do, but they're all optional!) simultaneously, which of course just makes things more complicated for everyone.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by BrandoElFollito on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:29AM (#26540482)
> This is true of electrical power outlets (15A/20A)

You mean that one can hold 15A and the other - 20A? If so, they do work the same, they just have different capacities (like a tap, some of them will provide more water, others less but they work the same (especially if they look the same))

Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by jdsully on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:09AM (#26540261)
20A plugs look different, they have a prong rotated 90 degrees.
Re:I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device by cesarb on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:15AM (#26541087)
Where I live (which uses the NBR 14136 standard), the 20A plugs and sockets look identical to the 10A plugs and sockets, the pins and corresponding holes are only slightly larger (so that a 10A plug fits on a 20A socket, but not the reverse).