>> it’s a total lack of capability of even the most incremental innovative thinking

Honestly, HN is a cargo cult of native only, anti web app sentiment. It’s frustrating.

Or...

Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that.

> Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that.

The other opinion seems "notifications cannot be disabled, therefore notifications are bad".

If you don't want to see notification requests, you never will. Granted: you need to be able to change settings, in a very restricted environment or with a custom clone of some browser you might not be able to.

For most users, that's not a problem. I'm one of them. I don't see notification requests on my desktop or phone. Neither do I see requests for geo-location, even though the browser is fundamentally capable of providing my geo-location to websites through an API; I've disabled it.

I didn’t express an opinion either way. But it’s clear to me that there are some amongst us that believe that a difference of opinion must mean everyone who disagrees must therefore be in a cargo cult. That is what I am taking issue with. It’s also against the guidelines here.

I'm still struggling to find out the non-cult reason for "the feature must be banned from the browser, just being able to disable it for all time with a single click is not enough".

It'll be the same reason as the "cult" of "what I want should be the norm and anyone who disagrees, for whatever reason, must be in a cult"

I think the misunderstanding is that the HN sentiment is very tangential to how real average users experience websites. Here everyone uses Adblock and NoScript, whereas most users have neither installed. So HN is more like a cult, whereas the real world is much larger and not like a cult?

HN has many cargo cults not reflected by broader tech. It certainly has a crowd.

> 1. For some reason it has to be some sort of pop up, it could easily be a small icon in your bar

It is a popup right now... it is in your face and requires immediate action.

An example:

https://imgur.com/a/GfqUuAZ

Using:

https://www.bennish.net/web-notifications.html

> 2. Apple couldn’t/wouldn’t design this so that it was unobtrusive

It is obtrusive in that it is a full-window popover and you can't go to any other tabs until you have completed the action.

> 3. If the way they did design it was still too annoying, they wouldn’t make it less so, or make it easy to turn off

You can currently disable it browser wide in Preferences -> Websites => "Allow websites to ask permission to send notifications".

However, that doesn't stop various websites from displaying their own JavaScript based popups and requests before even attempting to use the Web Push Notifications API to see if the user wants to grant access using the native API's.

This way they can nag the user over and over to enable notifications whereas if you deny it once in the browser you need to take a bunch of manual steps to remove the website and grant them access.

Safari does not use the Web Push or Notification API, Apple has a bespoke Safari Push Notifications[1] API on macOS, so this poor implementation is completely on Apple.

On Firefox, it just puts a little message window icon in your address bar if you didn't trigger the Notifications API permission via a control on the website. When you do trigger the permissions through user interaction, and unobstructive widget shows up[2] that can be promptly hidden without ever actually interacting with it, unlike in your Safari example.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/notifications/safari-push-notifi...

[2] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/push-notifications-fire...

Wow, now I understand the sentiment... but that's a reason to stop using Safari, not against notifications.