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Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by dr_dshiv on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:16PM (#26506416)
How about a single neuron? After all, a single neuron is far more complex than a worm—just like a company is far less complex than the people who compose it.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by lurquer on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:58PM (#26506883)
Excellent point, and one that many fail to grasp.

Indeed, I’ve always suspected your observation may be the best definition of ‘life’ we currently have; namely, living systems are composed of parts that are more complex than the whole.

It’s a hard concept to articulate.

But, as you obviously know, the principle is obvious.. it doesn’t stop with the neuron; I would suspect the neurons membrane or its organelles are more ‘complex’ than the neuron itself.

Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by engineer_22 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:41PM (#26506680)
Earthworms actually have a well developed nervous system, containing many neurons.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by dr_dshiv on Thursday March 18, 2021 @04:41PM (#26507314)
Yeah, but if this (below) is happening inside a single cell, doesn't it seem much easier to model a single worm than to model a single cell?

Inner life of a cell: https://youtu.be/wJyUtbn0O5Y

Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by engineer_22 on Friday March 26, 2021 @08:50AM (#26591479)
Great animation, thanks for sharing.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by phcordner on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:39PM (#26506663)
How? A worm is a whole multicellular organism. A neuron's just a cell, one that's specialized into a single function.

All a single neuron does is pass a signal to the synaptic cleft in response to a chemical or electrical signal at the other end. It's a simple subunit of a larger system.

Saying a single neuron is more complex than a worm is like saying a cat6 ethernet cable is more complex than a blast furnace.

Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by tayo42 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:57PM (#26506875)
I agree with the sentiment, but I think your selling neurons short. They do grow, develop and change over time as a response to their inputs.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by dr_dshiv on Thursday March 18, 2021 @04:22PM (#26507153)
Just because a structure is larger and contains complex structures does not mean the larger system is more complex. For instance, I can create a logic gate with some friends. The logic gate is way simpler than the people composing it.

Neurons can have millions of mitochondria [1], which they dynamically move about the cell. Neurons are like amoeba with dozens of pseudopods when young. Amoeba are more complicated than worms, in terms of degrees of freedom, no?

Check this video of fetal neurons movin' about. So cute! https://youtu.be/hb7tjqhfDus

[1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncir.2016.0002...

Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by morpheos137 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:32PM (#26506564)
A single neuron is not an independent self replicating organism so I would not say a single neuron is alive (on its own) per my definition, although it is part of a larger living creature.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by dr_dshiv on Thursday March 18, 2021 @03:56PM (#26506862)
Are people actually independent self-replicating organisms. We are all parts of a superorganism, no?

Each of our experiences are composed of the experiences of (billions?) of other people. We aren't islands.

Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by morpheos137 on Thursday March 18, 2021 @05:35PM (#26507814)
Do you suppose neurons consider the super organism they are part of? No. So why should humans. Yes "we" are all fragments of the unified human experience, but our role, as individuals is to live as individuals.
Re:Is Consciousness Everywhere? by dr_dshiv on Friday March 19, 2021 @05:01AM (#26511296)
Hmm, not sure I agree. I think our role is to create a harmonious global society. But to do that, we need to take care of yourself, our friends and family, etc.

And do neurons know about us? Well, they only know what they know. I think what they know could potentially be an empirical question. Some neurons are far more complex and connected than others.