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Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by quicklime on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:51AM (#26474349)
I probably hate it for different reasons from others on HN, but I move countries (and change numbers) and travel a lot, and SMS just isn't a reliable way to reach me. On top of that, attempting to log in to a website from a foreign country is often itself a trigger for 2FA, and exactly the moment when I'm not reachable by SMS.

This has bitten me a few times, sometimes in desperate situations. Like when I've needed to log in to Airbnb to message a host, transfer some cash from my bank account, access my frequent flyer account, etc. Far too many sites don't provide 2FA over email, or through an app like Google Authenticator - they can only do it over SMS.

Yeah, I know I could set up roaming. But it's an easy thing to forget, since I change phone numbers every couple of years (for both personal and work phones). And it's not always cheap.

It's also just a huge pain to have to go through and change every account I have, any time I change numbers. A lot of accounts that I only use occasionally are configured with one of my many old phone numbers, which don't work anymore. This usually involves a call to tech support to fix it.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by chrismorgan on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:06AM (#26474828)
I’m an Australian that was in India for the last year (just arrived back, up to day 2 of my 14 day quarantine). Anything that has needed to verify me through SMS (e.g. filing my Australian tax return via myGov, paying for things with my credit card if they used the fancy security thing, like most airlines do and Amazon apparently does, and logging into one or two things) has required me to contact my parents to turn on and check the old phone I left with them, because roaming for a year is expensive and otherwise pointless (I barely use a phone), but transferring my number to a prepaid Amaysim SIM let me keep it alive and mine for the year for $10.

Actually, the myGov thing was a real piece of work. They offer secret questions as a second factor that you can opt to use instead of SMS codes (and yes, secret questions are stupid), but when I did that, it silently unlinked my Australian Tax Office account. I tried to link it up again (a bit of a pain in its own right), and it told me that ATO has decided that it won’t let you link it up if you use secret questions as the second factor technique. Seriously. So I had to switch back. Oh yeah, they do also have a third option, an app of their own that can generate codes (not TOTP), but that app had something like 2 stars on Google Play Store, with many reviews saying it didn’t work at all, so I didn’t even bother trying that.

When I’m in Australia with my phone handy, SMS verification seems not too bad, but when out of the country and not roaming, it may vary between very inconvenient and completely debilitating.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by superasn on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:27AM (#26475784)
> has required me to contact my parents to turn on and check the old phone I left with them

Why didn't you use a sms to email forwarding app on a phone connected to a charger?

They are free on play store and work really well.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by chrismorgan on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:31AM (#26475828)
It never occurred to me to seek such a thing. As I wrote my earlier comment here, I wondered to myself whether there might be an app or service to help with this, but it’s too late now. But even then, I’m not sure I’d want to leave a phone plugged in all year, even with its battery removed.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by glitchc on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:34PM (#26479083)
That’s a horrendous hack. The security provisions of immediacy and liveness offered by SMS 2FA are rendered moot.

That one needs to do this to work around the limitations solidifies in my mind that SMS is a poor 2FA solution and should be discontinued.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by mindslight on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:43PM (#26479224)
I'm surprised to see people here treating SMS "2FA" as anything but some snake oil annoyance to be worked around. I setup mine to go to a VOIP number where texts show up in email. I have plans to write something that looks for these messages and spits the code to a terminal or XMPP. My goal is to get that code into my paste buffer as quickly as possible.

If you're using a password manager and have a security model that includes trusting your own computer, you really don't want the snake oil. In fact with US bank accounts, "2FA" steps make your account less secure, because the security of your bank account ultimately relies on checking your transactions every 30 days - anything that gets in the way of easily logging in undermines that.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by corty on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @01:05PM (#26479617)
> In fact with US bank accounts, "2FA" steps make your account less secure, because the security of your bank account ultimately relies on checking your transactions every 30 days - anything that gets in the way of easily logging in undermines that.

So much this, for Europe as well. Since PSD2, i cannot automatically check my bank account anymore, because of onerous and braindead 2FA requirements. And most banks do not offer a email-on-withdrawal function in any proper fashion, even their apps require regular reauthentication. But, since it is a braindead directive, you can install the 2FA app on the same phone as the bank app and have them talk to each other, thereby killing all the security benefit while still being annoying and non-automatic.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by glitchc on Friday March 19, 2021 @12:51PM (#26515588)
Sounds like we're in agreement.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by BiteCode_dev on Thursday March 18, 2021 @06:04AM (#26501104)
I'd advice for the excellent pulsesms app, which will let you sync you sms from your phone to your desktop.

You can read and write messages from the comfy keyboard of your Windows/MacOS/Linux laptop, even if your phone is at the other side of the world, as long as both are connected to internet.

As someone who forgets his phone regularly at home, it's great.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by dbetteridge on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:15AM (#26475265)
The app does work by the way.

It is a steaming hot pile of garbage where the government has yet again decided to not use a widely accepted standard.

But if you just need to login to myGov every few months to check something or do your tax return it works better then the SMS

(Just don't lose the phone it is installed on, because you can't link it to a new one without ringing and wading through security checks)

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by chrismorgan on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:30AM (#26475361)
When I hear many reports of things flat-out not working in this way, I’m suspicious that it won’t work for me with my Samsung Galaxy J1 (2016) on Android 5.1, which Google has progressively broken by means of Google Play Services updates. As some typical examples of things that have been broken by Google Play Store updates: Fastmail notifications now only come through on wifi or (I found out last week) if Maps (by Google) is running in the foreground; and Hangouts is completely nonfunctional off wifi (can’t send or receive). It’s network-related things that are the least reliable.

I really wish I could root it or install a new OS on it, but the former has failed and even with an unlocked bootloader the latter takes much too much effort if a prebuilt image isn’t available for your specific device, which roughly means “if you don’t have a flagship phone”.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by dbetteridge on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:59AM (#26475562)
Oof yeah, if you're running an Android version that old I would not expect much to work that relies on Google services.

That said if you're out of the country a lot and going the SMS auth route, I'd personally be more comfortable with a postpaid plan in AUS for the SIM as the telcos tend to take ID requirements more seriously for those then pre-paids and you're less likely to be socially engineered out of your number.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by chrismorgan on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:28AM (#26475802)
“That old”, and yet the phone’s not even three years old (my instance of the model, that is; the model was at that point two years old and is thus now five years old). Sigh.

I said prepaid, but as I did it it’s actually postpaid but with an initial $10 prepayment required. Ah, good times back in 2014–2017, getting those bills for less than a dollar (commonly 12¢) every quarter. Then I moved to a tiny country town where an Optus tower a few hundred metres away became my best option for internet, 50/25Mbps and far more solid than any NBN anecdote I’ve heard.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by dbetteridge on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:37AM (#26475891)
Yeah the unfortunate situation of Android devices means that you may have only just bought the phone but if it isn't supported you could be running a very old OS version.

In this case I think Android 5 was 2014, so almost 7 years old a this point.

Amaysim are pretty good, Though if you can convince them to add a security note to your account its worth it (Colleague of mine had his mobile number hijacked while on holiday and they used it to access a few of his online accounts)

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by wasmitnetzen on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:36AM (#26475875)
> the phone’s not even three years old

Well, Android 5.1 was EOL in 2015, so you willingly bought an unsupported model. I'm not saying Android has any sensible long-term support (in fact, I spent the last weekend installing LineageOS because my 2018 phone doesn't have support anymore), but this instance is hardly Google's fault.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by gibspaulding on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:12AM (#26476233)
> you willingly bought an unsupported model

I think most people on HN are comfortable doing a bit of research to see when a device will stop receiving support, but I don't think that's reasonable to expect from everyone.

If I walk into a shop and buy a phone, new in the box, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that it's operating system will work with whatever apps I install from it's built in store, and that it will receive security patches for at least a few years. That seems to me like a pretty low bar, but it's absolutely not the case in the Android ecosystem.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by RileyJames on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @05:05AM (#26474445)
Absolutely this. I currently have a document from my bank, that they emailed me. Which I’m suppose to print, write all my personal info on, plus a copy of my passport and FAX to them!!

All because I want to change my phone number, and I’m overseas.

Which I only need to change (or even have associated with my account at all) because they refuse to offer any other 2FA option.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by pentae on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:35AM (#26474997)
Unfortunately, the only remedy to this i've found is to travel like james bond with two cell phones. I keep a second android phone with my 'back home' sim on the cheapest monthly plan possible and only turn it on to read sms codes. It really comes in handy when needing to sign up to a new service in your home country while abroad. Just don't forget to keep data roaming turned off
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by jiggawatts on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:02AM (#26476149)
Newer phones have a second virtual e-SIM slot. Very handy when you're travelling. You set up your normal number on the e-SIM, and then you buy a data-only phyiscal SIM at the airport.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by GhostVII on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:54AM (#26475530)
This is why I switched over to a VOIP number instead. SMS works everywhere I have internet, and if I have to I just pick up a data-only sim card for wherever I am. Can even check my messages online. Probably not as secure, and wouldn't work well if I was regularly calling people, but for the most part it works fine and costs $1 a month.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by wryroybatty on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:21PM (#26484524)
Unfortunately voip, in my case voip.ms, does not work with all sms send methods.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by sodality2 on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:06AM (#26475611)
$1/mo? Which provider is that? Twilio?
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by GhostVII on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:02AM (#26476155)
Voip.ms
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by the_duke on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:42AM (#26475944)
Why don't you just get a dedicated "virtual" phone number for this purpose? It's not expensive.

Skype is an obvious choice, but there are many other providers.

Then you have a stable number and can read SMS via app web UI.

I switched to the same method a few years ago. It's useful even if you don't travel much, just to not tie 2FA to your phone and for not giving all those services your real number.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by ydant on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:58AM (#26476108)
I have two virtual (US) numbers - one through Twilio (which I've enable short-code receive support for), and one on Google Voice.

Both have failed to receive 2-factor messages from providers over the years. Very occasionally the Google Voice number is blocked explicitly by the provider as a VOIP number. It's just not a reliable 100% replacement for "real" SMS in my experience.

Google Voice is close to acceptable as a replacement, and it's my primary 2-factor number when it works, but it's not 100% for reasons outside of my control.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by inflorescer on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @06:00PM (#26483712)
>I have two virtual (US) numbers - one through Twilio

I've heard good things, can you port a cell number in or is it strictly voip? (I haven't done anything phreaking adjacent in ages)

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by ydant on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @03:27PM (#26495762)
Seems porting is supported:

https://support.twilio.com/hc/en-us/articles/223179348-Porti...

I used one of their existing pool of numbers.

For inbound short-code support, you have to contact support directly and agree to a legal T&C for them to enable it.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by dageshi on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:43AM (#26476571)
I have also travelled a lot in the past...

You presumably do have a "home" country in the sense of where your bank accounts are, get a cheap permanent sim/phone no with roaming, buy the tiniest phone you can off amazon and stick it in as your 2factor permanent number.

Yes, you have to keep that phone charged, but your problem is now permanently solved, it's how I did it.