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Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by bawolff on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @04:15AM (#26474146)
I dont think this is a one sided debate.

Pro: SMS 2FA is better than just passwords. In practise 2FA is primarily a hedge against credential surfing, with its other security properties more theoretical than practical, and it mostly works good enough for that use case. (Perfect is the enemy of good)

Con: there's lots of attacks related to social engineering the telecom into transfering your phone number. Real people have been compromised this way albeit this attack is pretty targeted.

There is also some concerns about evesdropping/mitm attacks. This is pretty unrealistic in my mind. If you're an on-path attacker for someone's cell phone convo that implies you have direct access to the victim, so the victim is pretty screwed regardless.

So in the end its a usability vs security tradeoff. Its a pretty close tradeoff so its not exactly a slam dunk in either direction.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by _trampeltier on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:34AM (#26475388)
No it's not better, it's worse. Because with SMS 2FA, you can most times reset the password and then everything is lost. With just a password and no SMS 2FA you can't just reset the password so easy.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:51AM (#26476028)
So don't allow password reset over SMS.

Email is hardly beter than sms, and we do password resets over email.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by jjav on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @08:28PM (#26485064)
> Email is hardly beter than sms, and we do password resets over email.

Email is certainly far more secure. Consider the steps an attacker would need to do to be able to intercept an email being sent from the service being accessed (say, your bank) to your email server provider.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by hlandau on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:45AM (#26478347)
"Email is hardly better than SMS" is an absurd claim. As has been written SMS is not secure, easily hijacked, and potentially transmitted in the clear.

By contrast email can be made arbitrarily secure nowadays via e.g. DANE/STS-MTA, and it's entirely up to an email provider how secure mailbox access is.

Saying that "email is hardly better than SMS" when the former can be secured via DNSSEC/DANE and where the mailbox can only be accessed by me over an SSH tunnel is truly laughable. In fact since sites which demand phone numbers seem to have some completely baseless idea that the phone number is somehow more "secure" than email, often adding a phone number will enable phone number-based recovery methods which therefore actually reduce account security.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by tptacek on Wednesday March 17, 2021 @01:31AM (#26486947)
No mainstream email providers support DANE, which is about as realistic an option as SSH tunnels.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by ClumsyPilot on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @07:02PM (#26484351)
"mailbox can only be accessed by me over an SSH tunnel"

Thats basically fantasy territory for an average user. If you consider the real world" abundant phishing, etc. then you will realise that in practice there is very little daylight between them.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by bawolff on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:10PM (#26481430)
Attackers who can defeat your password typically can also defeat your password protected email account.

Being an on-path attacker against SMTP is not a realistic threat model for most users.

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by PeterisP on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @09:12AM (#26476238)
While a password+SMS 2FA would be better than just password, the problem is that SMS often gets also turned into a single-factor password recovery mechanism; and SMS alone is worse security-wise than a decent password.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by bawolff on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @11:33AM (#26478154)
Well that's not 2fa. That is just 1fa.
Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by marcosdumay on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @12:59PM (#26479502)
> Pro: SMS 2FA is better than just passwords.

That's from the point of view of somebody trying a denial of service attack target at some user, right?

Re:It’s time to stop using SMS for security by bawolff on Tuesday March 16, 2021 @03:52PM (#26481996)
Its from the perspective that most users are bad at choosing passwords. We've been trying to get the average user to use distinct high entropy passwords for decades and it hasn't worked.

Imo, if people used passwords correctly, all common 2fa solutions other than yubikeys would be useless.