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Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by TeMPOraL on Friday March 12, 2021 @10:00AM (#26436481)
It's the other way around: these phrases are neutral observations and reasonable opinions, perhaps reasonable reactions to insanity of well-known political slogans - importantly, it's something a random person can come up independently, without reading the exact words first. But at some point, these phrases rapidly become politicized, and this catches a lot of people off guard.

You voice your thoughts, fully expecting the audience to consider it neutral, but it so happens that your words pattern-match to a phrase that became a political slogan somewhen in the last few months, and boom, your audience hates you. You just stepped on a political landmine[0].

It seems to me than in the past 5-10 years, social discourse became littered with such political landmines, and at this rate, it's very hard to keep up with the list of phrases that can blow up in your face.

--

[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25968760

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by matthewmacleod on Friday March 12, 2021 @10:21AM (#26436739)
That's only true in the sense that every phrase can be a "neutral observation" if you choose to ignore the context in which it is used and the associations it has.

It's the same concept as dogwhistling at its core. Like the terms "urban", or "big government", or "states' rights", or "law and order". Completely "neutral phrases" that are often used to communicate a hidden message with plausible deniability. I mean after all, who could disagree that "all lives matter" – it's obvious isn't it?

I don't really accept it's all that hard to be aware of the implications of the language you use to communicate. I suppose you might theoretically step on a "landmine", but I'll tell you what – I am virtually certain that nobody who has said "it's okay to be white" to their audience has accidentally stumbled upon a neutral phrase with good intentions.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by throwaway0a5e on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:00AM (#26437140)
>Like the terms "urban", or "big government", or "states' rights", or "law and order". Completely "neutral phrases" that are often used to communicate a hidden message with plausible deniability.

These are terms used earnestly in neutral ways by academics, professionals and bureaucrats from all over the political spectrum. Does anyone seriously thing the NHTSA or some sociology professor is dog whistling when they use words like "urban environments" or "law and order"?

Yes, you can communicate a hidden message with them but you can communicate a hidden message with damn near any words in the english language if you want to.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by AnthonyMouse on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:47PM (#26438538)
The other side of this is that opponents always try to create negative associations for whatever they oppose.

So then someone whose politics favors authoritarianism and centralization will propose some federal power grab, opponents will make arguments favoring local control and the authoritarians will try to tar them with slavery and Jim Crow even if the subject is unrelated, e.g. whether the FDA should be overruling the states on whether or not to ban a thing in their state.

It's essentially an attempt to prevent anyone from taking the neutral position by making an accusation of guilt by association. Nazis are bad, Nazis built roads, therefore roads are bad.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by watwut on Friday March 12, 2021 @10:35AM (#26436886)
There was no "all lives matter" until there was "black lives matter" and people wanted to say they don't like the message.

It is quite dishonest to claim that this phrase is neutral and not a political slogan.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by kbelder on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:26PM (#26438237)
What happened is that people heard the phrase "black lives matter", and were uncomfortable with the racial specificity. They wanted to _clarify_ it with the true fundamental principle.

Why do black lives matter? Because: All lives matter.

That is a non-racist perspective, and it was attacked viciously because it undercuts a propaganda effort.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by penetraitor69 on Friday March 12, 2021 @01:14PM (#26438891)
> They wanted to _clarify_ it with the true fundamental principle.

I don't think that's an honest portrayal of the actual actions that took place or their motivations. In the context of disproportionate black deaths, mischaracterizing focusing on that specific issue:

1) does not inspire any positive change itself,

2) prevents positive change by demonizing those who are bringing awareness to and proposing solutions to the problem.

Rarely do you see the "all lives matter" crowd calling for increased police accountability; in fact, given their close association with Blue Lives Matter, I believe those who throw the slogan around tend to fight for quite the opposite.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by peytn on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:14AM (#26437302)
It’s a restatement of the first and most widely-known principle of the Unitarian Universalist Association [1]. I think that is why it resonates with many people.

Those people are then caught off-guard when they use the phrase and find themselves labeled “racist.”

I just don’t see how the vilification of a specific phrasing of a common sentiment moves us forward. To me it feels like playing power games with words.

[1]: https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/principles/1st

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by drdec on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:18AM (#26437363)
I think you are forgetting what it was like when the "black lives matter" slogan was first becoming popular. If hadn't already been exposed to it, it was very easy to respond "incorrectly".

For example, here's a case of a Democratic governor, running for president, getting caught by this:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/martin-omalley-all-l...

And here is Hillary Clinton, falling into the same trap:

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/41711...

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by jstrong on Friday March 12, 2021 @11:45AM (#26437701)
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by sokoloff on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:33PM (#26438327)
Textually, that can be read as a fancied-up version of "all lives matter". Semantically at the time, it most certainly did not have an everyday lived reality that all people were equal.

At the time, women couldn't vote, Black people could be owned, and all people could be indentured servants, which significantly undermines the "Thomas Jefferson said 'All Lives Matter' almost 250 years ago" argument.

Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by nonford150 on Friday March 12, 2021 @07:11PM (#26442542)
But the Constitution has been amended to correct those issues. Why use the past when the present supports OP's statement?
Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by sokoloff on Friday March 12, 2021 @08:06PM (#26442944)
If OP’s point was that Thomas Jefferson said something close to “All Lives Matter” 250 years ago in the Declaration of Independence, therefore it’s not a reaction to “Black Lives Matter” today, it seems most reasonable to examine the contemporaneous context of the original words.
Re:You can't censor away extremism or any other problem by ctdonath on Saturday March 13, 2021 @10:27PM (#26452532)
There was no "all lives matter" until there was "black lives matter" and people wanted to say they don't like the message.

People wanted to say they don't like being left out of the message.

Nobody seriously opposed "black lives matter", but noticed that proponents of that phrase got vicious when faced with "all lives matter"; the latter is not a political slogan, but a litmus test for racism.