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Re:Write Simply by a4isms on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:23PM (#26430800)
I have opinions about writing. So does Mr. Graham.

What our opinions have in common is that they are not falsifiable. Unless we validate our conjectures with empirical evidence, we're really just sharing our taste.

"Oh no," you may say, "I have tested it, and when I write a longer essay, my retweets and upvotes decline." Very well, but the plural of anecdote is not 'data.'

Somewhere else on the Internet, there is someone with poetic, dense writing. When they simplify it, their audience dries up.

Writers and audiences find each other. If you try to measure the effect of your writing using only an audience that has selected your writing voluntarily, you are not measuring your effectiveness, you are measuring the degree to which your writing pleases people who already like your writing.

Absent a properly constructed empirical approach, we might as well be discussing hemlines and necktie widths.

Re:Write Simply by isamuel on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:46PM (#26432005)
There is no empirical evidence that can "validate" a normative claim, except to the extent that such claims rely on empirical priors. You can't squeeze an "ought" from an "is," literally by definition.

The response "this normative opinion is not falsifiable" is just confused—it's like saying "this empirical observation is not good."

Re:Write Simply by a4isms on Friday March 12, 2021 @10:23AM (#26436760)
I did not read the OP as making normative claims, I read the OP as making claims about things that quite possibly could be measured, provided the author stoped waving his hands and was specific. For example, the opening two sentences:

I try to write using ordinary words and simple sentences. ... That kind of writing is easier to read, and the easier something is to read, the more deeply readers will engage with it.

This is a claim suggesting a cause-and-effect relationship between a certain type of writing and a certain behaviour on the part of people who read the article.

My feeling is that this claim could be falsifiable, provided the OP got specific about what "ordinary words" are, what "simple sentences" are, and what kind of "engagement" we wish to measure.

If he did so, the claim would be falsifiable. And in truth, I'm not going to say that if he did get precise, it would still not be falsifiable. Experience tells me that yes, we can identify cause-and-effect relationships between empirically measurable characteristics of prose and precise engagement metrics.

That is exactly the kind of thing that people do when they try to manufacture "clickbait" headlines.

But he chose to make these claims without being specific, and to me this is what makes it non-falsifiable, but not normative.

JM2C.

Re:Write Simply by nine_k on Friday March 12, 2021 @06:16PM (#26442130)
Look, the entire original post of pg's is about 2 KB.

You are suggesting to write a proper paper, backed by proper research.

A paper would of course be useful. But it won't replace the short blurb, which communicates an idea in 2-3 minutes of reading.

Re:Write Simply by when_creaks on Friday March 12, 2021 @01:40PM (#26439212)
This study isn't dispositive but I think it's reaching towards the sort of empiricism you're looking for.

"If It's Hard to Read, It's Hard to Do: Processing Fluency Affects Effort Prediction and Motivation"

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9280.200...

Re:Write Simply by GreeniFi on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:12PM (#26431155)
For low friction, transfer of ideas, Graham is right. But sometimes sounding like passport application form instructions doesn’t get the right feeling across.

Words have a magic about them, and I don’t think Paul Graham would dispute that.

Re:Write Simply by yawaramin on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:36PM (#26430905)
Well, yes, style and taste are by definition subjective. In the words of The Big Lebowski, 'That's just, like, your opinion, man!' ;-)
Re:Write Simply by PhilosAccnting on Saturday March 13, 2021 @09:54AM (#26446937)
One thing that tends to offend most tech people I come across:

Data is not the basis of existence. Math itself is nothing but a derived value construct our minds play tricks with. 3 apples is a value system in the mind as we see it, not innately as it sits there.

Thus, when people say "I want data", they are saying to me, "I want a majority thought based on an abstraction of information (math)." You certainly didn't when you (and me and everyone else) were foraging for a nipple/bottle!

Re:Write Simply by mym1990 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:06PM (#26431833)
I saw a lot of irony in reading this comment, most of which I did not understand, after reading the OP.
Re:Write Simply by ilrwbwrkhv on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:31PM (#26431942)
haha so true
Re:Write Simply by yigitcakar on Friday March 12, 2021 @01:19PM (#26438940)
I think Mr. Graham's advice works on essays and usually on non-fiction writing, which he is fairly proficient. It might even work perfectly on genre fiction. But literary fiction is a different beast.
Re:Write Simply by wellpast on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:50PM (#26431745)
Many a “writer’s” audience is a majority their mother.

Sure, producers and consumers “find each other” but that’s no where near the end of the story.

You have a flaw in your reasoning here. Not all that is true is falsifiable.

Re:Write Simply by okareaman on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:25PM (#26431913)
I saw a writing tip on Twitter the other day that said write like your parent are already dead, which is another way of saying write with less inner critic
Re:Write Simply by jzb on Friday March 12, 2021 @08:03AM (#26435384)
I guess that makes Batman a hell of a writer.
Re:Write Simply by andyxor on Friday March 12, 2021 @12:41PM (#26438457)
>a properly constructed empirical approach

I wish there was an A/B testing platform for writers

Re:Write Simply by runawaybottle on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:40PM (#26430934)
Yo, but real talk, didn’t we all just eat his essay up?
Re:Write Simply by pretendscholar on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:57PM (#26431438)
No I really dislike Paul Graham and I find his writing style to be extremely grating. I wouldn't have said anything but you asked. I guess I'm in the minority on this one and I'm a hater in general.
Re:Write Simply by lioeters on Friday March 12, 2021 @07:59AM (#26435348)
May I ask, what characteristics/qualities you find so grating in his writing?

Like/dislike of writing style is so subjective, just like musical taste, so I can understand if it's not even possible to verbalize why. Perhaps it's just the "tone".

Re:Write Simply by patrickthebold on Thursday March 11, 2021 @09:01PM (#26431466)
Well said.