Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by dragonwriter on Saturday March 06, 2021 @11:59PM (#26373278)

It's not a false narrative, though what is a false narrative is that it's directly because of prop 47, and not retailers adopting policies directed at limiting employees confronting thieves, resulting in fewer being caught. To the extent prop 47 plays a role, it's because police departments deemphasize followup enforcement on misdemeanors, though there is no legal requirement that they do so: a crime shouldn't need a disproportionate punishment for police to enforce it. And since the same police leaders choosing nonenforcement are also using the increase in crime to lobby for reincreasing punishment, there's an argument that, insofar as Prop 47 is involved, it's because police policymakers are conducting a lobbying campaign by deliberately allowing crime to occur to build support for greater punishment.

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by manigandham on Sunday March 07, 2021 @10:24AM (#26376511)

Do you seriously think retailers had their employees confronting thieves? This isn't a recent change, they were always instructed to call the police instead of interfering. And if crime isn't being prosecuted then why would police waste limited resources on catching thieves just to see them out on the street with no consequence?

You are looking at this backwards. It's all directly because of policy changes, because that's what changed the judicial behavior, which affected upstream police behavior, which affected upstream public's behavior.

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by dragonwriter on Sunday March 07, 2021 @11:18AM (#26377063)

> Do you seriously think retailers had their employees confronting thieves?

Well, since I've known people who worked as loss prevention managers and who did it, and since the news article on the issue posted elsewhere in the thread specifically identified that retailers have changed policies in ways which reduce that, yes, I am reasonably think that they were doing so before and are doing so less now.

> And if crime isn't being prosecuted

To the extent that is a problem in some places (which no source I've seen indicates it is generally, though I've seen some indicating it may be in San Francisco specifically), then that too is not a requirement of the law (misdemeanors are not nonprosecutable) and the same criticism shifts within law enforcement to DAs, it's still not the law’s fault.

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by manigandham on Sunday March 07, 2021 @02:40PM (#26379023)

So why would retailers change their behavior then? Again you're looking at this backwards. The law changed, so the prosecution changed, so the arrests changed, so the police response changed, and so the retailers (and general public) changed the way they report and deal with crimes.

Why are you placing blame at everything downstream instead of what actually triggered the changes?

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by masonic on Sunday March 07, 2021 @03:02AM (#26374135)

Police don't choose whether to drop charges.

The vast majority of nonviolent crimes here now have no police involvement whatsoever. They just have you file an online report for you to forward to your insurance (if any). This includes catalytic converter thefts that can cost over $2000 alone to resolve, let alone other property loss plus vehicle damage.

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by dragonwriter on Sunday March 07, 2021 @11:20AM (#26377095)

> Police don't choose whether to drop charges.

Police do choose whether and what resources to devote to investigation after a report. If they never identify an offender because they don't do anything with what they are given by retailers, there are no charges to drop.

> The vast majority of nonviolent crimes here now have no police involvement whatsoever.

Which is a choice by the police.

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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by DrScump on Sunday March 07, 2021 @05:52PM (#26380582)

  Police do choose whether and what resources to devote to investigation

... and when the DA publishes a policy directive of non-prosecution of property crime, like in SF, police stop spending resources there. It's a catch-22.

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