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Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jeffbee on Saturday March 06, 2021 @09:49PM (#26372694)
To say that Vancouver built built built requires an ignorance of historical building rates. Vancouver, like the American west coast cities, severely underbuilt for decades and only recently returned to historical average rate of home building, which does not help address the accumulated deficit. For example in 2009 the whole city only built 9000 new homes, which is 1/3rd the average historical per-capita rate.
Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jariel on Saturday March 06, 2021 @10:02PM (#26372753)
"severely underbuilt for decades "

First - there is no such thing as 'under built'.

A community can house as many people as it houses - and that's that.

There can be an 'amount of new development relative to other places' - but not without a massive dose of 'housing ideology' can you say how much is over or under.

Second, the notion that 'there was less building for decades and then a lot of building, but not enough to catch up' doesn't really make sense, because even with an ideological view of 'how much is correct' there can be no such thing as 'pent up unfulfilled demand from previous building'. There are not a bunch of people living in Calgary or Seattle 'waiting' for the opportunity if only affordability was there.

Plenty of places in the world are 'more expensive' than neighbouring regions and yet don't 'build out quickly'.

Lastly, and most importantly, Vancouver has built up quite dramatically over the last two decades, and even as it has done this, affordability has plummeted.

The problem with 'NIMBYism and Housing' is the degree to which that position is ideological and that people don't recognize it as such.

There is no such thing as 'over/under' building for any specific community, there is only such a thing relative to net demand in nation for example that is either growing or shrinking for natural reasons or migration.

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jeffbee on Saturday March 06, 2021 @10:04PM (#26372760)
> First - there is no such thing as 'under built'.

Yes, there is. In a regime of rapidly increasing life expectancy, there is a demographic certainty of future housing needs.

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jariel on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:45PM (#26381236)
??? Life expectancy, birth rates, net migration are the factors of an overall nation, not not of any city.

Nobody has been able to put forth a single reasonable argument for why SF must tear down their homes and put up apartment buildings other that 'because it should'.

And FYI there is no housing shortage in the US overall, there never has been, housing has expanded commensurate with population.

Not only that - housing is relatively cheap in the US.

Of course there is a lot of demand to live in SF vis-a-vis Sacramento, there always will be, but otherwise, there isn't any reason to build a single home unless the residents want that.

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jeffbee on Sunday March 07, 2021 @09:10PM (#26381710)
I guess we’re just going to disagree there. In my view it is completely immoral to give birth to people but not build them a place to live. It is as immoral as suggesting that people should leave their city upon retirement, and for the same reason.
Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jariel on Monday March 08, 2021 @12:52AM (#26382662)
"It is completely immoral to give birth to people but not build them a place to live."

If you mean to say 'people have a moral right to live in the city they were born in' - fair enough - but this notion falls apart instantly unless you want to somehow give 'born and raised SF' kids some kind of literal non-market advantage.

If you live in an 'expensive place' then your kids can live there, as long as they are wealthy enough, that's the cost of living in a wealthy place and there's no way around it.

By 'building more to facilitate affordability' - well that certainly would enable more people to live there, but the demand will come from all over not just 'the kids of'.

SF is a small city and it's expensive, if parents want their kids to live there they can literally give them their homes. Otherwise, their kids can get good jobs or live in Santa Rosa.

There is plenty of space in North Cal.

Finally, SF residents can make up their own minds about how they want to do it. More building, less building, it's entirely up to them and nobody else's business.

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by ActorNightly on Sunday March 07, 2021 @12:09AM (#26373329)
My question is did they build houses or apartments?

Because building houses generally does nothing for prices. Zoning for managed apartments is the best way to increase the housing supply.

Re:Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are le... by jariel on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:47PM (#26381247)
The build massive numbers of apartment buildings that totally changed the nature of the city. And it's still unaffordable.