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Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by chmod600 on Friday March 05, 2021 @10:40AM (#26358030)
Nobody is suggesting that eBay should be forced to facilitate the sale of a patticular book.

The concern is over what society feels is shameful and how it's handled. Right now we are ashamed of things we shouldn't be and the remedy we're choosing is exclusion. That doesn't sound like a formula for success.

On top of that, this is all being pushed by a tiny minority that has gained more power than we realized. Surely some tiny fraction of people think Dr. Seuss is offensive. A tiny fraction of people overall, a tiny fraction of eBay employees/shareholders, etc. It's always concerning when these tiny minority views can push everyone else around.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by NeverFade on Friday March 05, 2021 @10:58AM (#26358252)
Indeed, the arbitrariness of the leftist standards, and how easily and frequently they are liable to change, is in fact the point.

President Obama praised, quoted, and recommended Dr. Seuss's books in official press releases throughout his presidency, all the way to his last year as president - 2015:

https://nypost.com/2021/03/03/barack-and-michelle-obama-prai...

But now, barely 6 years later, the Leftist Mob has come for Dr. Seuss, and we're all bullied to recite that Dr. Seuss is racist, was racist, has always been racist.

To quote Orwell: "The past was alterable. The past never had been altered."

The real point isn't that Dr. Seuss is actually racist (he never was), but to condition us to reject, ban, erase and cancel "unacceptable" ideas, thoughts, and expressions - on social command.

The overarching theme here is control: in the leftist vision, society must control and regulate the consciousness of all its members, in order to create a perfect Utopian centrally-controlled society.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by chmod600 on Friday March 05, 2021 @11:30AM (#26358709)
"Racism" has come to mean something more like "unclean thoughts" or "original sin" where everyone has it even if you didn't do anything. Every media cycle we get mad and burn a witch who didn't try hard enough to atone for these unclean thoughts.

Sometimes it's just for the sake of fear, sometimes it's for convenience. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who initiated this Dr Seuss hate have a stockpile of his books.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by NeverFade on Friday March 05, 2021 @11:40AM (#26358837)
It's enforcement for the sake of enforcement.

"Racism" used to mean that you were actually and actively promoting a racist mindset. Now the Leftist Mob persecutes people for, essentially, making mistakes that superficially look like racism. Donald G. McNeil was fired and cancelled from the New York Times for asking whether someone used a racial slur, in the context of talking about racial slurs. A Chinese professor was cancelled for teaching a Mandarin word that sounds (vaguely) like a racial slur.

Nobody really thinks any of these people are racist. But control must be enforced, that is the point. Catching someone uttering a "forbidden word" is just an excuse.

The point isn't to eliminate racism, sexism, or any of these other bigoted discriminations which have long been illegal in the US. The point is to exercise absolute control over our thoughts, expressions, and behavior - and make us accept that control, view it as normal, justifiable, and even desirable.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by chmod600 on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:29PM (#26359414)
And the definition of "promoting" includes someone else digging up something obscure that's tied to you and sounds vaguely racist. In other words, someone else promoting your unclean thoughts counts as you promoting them.
Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by hbrav on Friday March 05, 2021 @04:25PM (#26362308)
> But now, barely 6 years later, the Leftist Mob has come for Dr. Seuss, and we're all bullied to recite that Dr. Seuss is racist, was racist, has always been racist.

What? No one is trying to cancel Dr Seuss. No one is suggesting that he was a bad or hateful person. His estate has decided to no longer publish a small number of his books. They are doing this because they feel that they contain hurtful stereotypes: https://www.seussville.com/statement-from-dr-seuss-enterpris...

I have used stereotypes and language in the past that, in retrospect, I recognize as hurtful, despite thinking it was not a big deal at the time. I no longer use those terms, or tell those jokes. That is part of maturing as a person.

The estate has a duty to protect the legacy of Dr Seuss, which was very positive and inclusive. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that, were Dr Seuss still alive, he might consider whether a Chinese-American child would feel uncomfortable with the images in "And To Think I Saw It On Mulberry Street", or whether an African-American child would feel uncomfortable reading "If I Ran the Zoo", and revise those works.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by NeverFade on Friday March 05, 2021 @05:32PM (#26363087)
> No one is trying to cancel Dr Seuss. No one is suggesting that he was a bad or hateful person.

This is factually false, as we have people in this comment thread who claim that Dr Seuss was always a clear, known racist:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26360503

I'm sure some people who support the cancellation of 6 of his books see it, like you, as just these 6 books being cancelled, and not as a complete destruction and cancellation of Dr. Seuss as a person.

However, as we've all seen in past cancellations, once you start labeling any specific act of a person as "cancelable", the mob will typically proceed to label the entire person cancelable.

This really is the normal progression, and we already see it in comments like the one I linked. If Dr. Seuss somehow escapes this fate, and isn't labeled overall "objectionable" and canceled wholesale - then it would be an exception, likely made precisely because he is such a mainstream figure, because he was in fact highly liberal even in his time, and in order to make this argument that you just made: that we are merely cancelling 6 of his books, and not all his books and everything about him.

In other words, parts of the mob decided that at this point, it will be a little too shocking to cancel such a mainstream, beloved, liberal figure, so unlike practically every other instance of Cancel Culture, in which the entire person and everything pertaining to them was canceled as soon as any "sin" was found, in this case only these specific books will be canceled.

Normally Dr. Seuss and his entire legacy would labeled "objectionable" and canceled, and parts of the mob are certainly eager to do that, as in the comment I've linked.

As someone who read Dr. Seuss as a child, I disagree that there are any "hurtful" representations in his books. There are cartoonish representations, which also exist in many, many other mediums, notably caricatures, cartoons, and animated shorts.

Incidentally, I am a member of one of these minorities who were supposed to be "offended" by these depictions. I am not.

This is all an instance of Cancel Culture, par excellence. To pretend otherwise is dishonest, and to pretend that nobody is trying to cancel Dr. Seuss is demonstrably false.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by mercer on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:55PM (#26359743)
Obama is very much not a leftist.
Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by chmod600 on Friday March 05, 2021 @01:46PM (#26360353)
He's a liberal. Sadly, the Left is pushing out liberals and abandoning liberal principles.
Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by mercer on Saturday March 06, 2021 @11:41AM (#26368547)
I'd say while that's true, it's a reaction the 'liberals' essentially having won. Biden one, one of the most right-wing of Democrats, instead of Bernie. Most of the 'left' seems very deflated, based on articles and podcasts I've listened to. They've all but given up.

That said, I'm interested to know more about why you're sad about this. As in, the current liberal reality is so removed from anything leftists want or care about, and it seems so impossible to achieve any of the 'leftist' goals, that abandonment is more something to accept and be depressed about, rather than something that is actively pursued.

Personally I don't know how to feel about all this. In part, it's just different being a leftie in a European social democracy. But also I feel a lot can be achieved even in a climate that in general seems to stacked against leftist goals. It's understandable to be dejected that Bernie lost, or whatever, but something like, say, fighting for worker rights at Amazon can be a worthy battle to engage in.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by jmull on Friday March 05, 2021 @11:42AM (#26358861)
That's all fine. You think eBay should sell those books. I do too.

My question is, who's decision is it to make?

Yours? Mine? The government's (through laws or regulations)? Or ebay's?

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by chmod600 on Friday March 05, 2021 @12:51PM (#26359691)
To answer directly, it's not eBay's decision because eBay is not a single person. I guess it's the CEOs, or someone under them, or maybe the board, or the shareholders.

I don't want to override the decision. But there is a disturbing context to the decision that's worth discussing.

Why are people making these decisions? Why are they coordinated and collective? Who are the beneficiaries?

And have we, as voters, shareholders, etc., put trust in the wrong leaders? Maybe all this crazy stuff professors have been promoting all this time wasn't just for attention. Maybe they meant it and taught their students to do it. And we are now seeing the results.

Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by loveistheanswer on Friday March 05, 2021 @01:31PM (#26360152)
Parents should be the ones deciding what their children should and should not read, not corporations.
Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by jmull on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:10PM (#26360772)
But they aren't deciding what your children read. Just what they list.
Re:Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay by loveistheanswer on Friday March 05, 2021 @03:11PM (#26361434)
Yes, in the same way people who participate in book burnings also arent deciding what you read, just what they burn.

"They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em" -RATM