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Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:23PM (#26323147)
You could say the same thing for plants right? They probably don't want to be eaten.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by shawnz on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @10:22PM (#26324341)
I actually think this is a legitimate concern. Here's my rationalization: Plants probably don't have a sense of individuality. Personally, I wouldn't care about eating parts of an animal that grew back (like eggs or milk). Plants seem to be no different.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by gitrog on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @04:46AM (#26326440)
The dairy industry is arguably worse with regard to animal abuse and mistreatment than the meat industry.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by shawnz on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @11:03AM (#26330184)
I agree, but in theory that is solvable
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:11PM (#26324653)
What about a carrot?
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by shawnz on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:22PM (#26324722)
I don't think it's clear why the root of a plant like a carrot should have any special significance except to us. What about onions, turnips, potatoes, etc?

That said, there are some who do think the roots are significant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:30PM (#26324764)
I meant a carrot is something that would probably be more individualized than say a strawberry. So I get your point about eating from plants that grow back, but I guess a carrot wouldn’t fall under that categorization.

Also, what about animals that regrow limbs? Would you eat the arms of a starfish every so often?

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by shawnz on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:45PM (#26324862)
I think it's possible combined with ethical farming practices I could be convinced it's not so bad to eat starfish arms (although they don't sound very appetizing).

To be clear I do already eat meat today. I am just not convinced about its necessity and am interested in ways to avoid doing it.

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by nearbuy on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:03PM (#26323414)
Since they lack thoughts, they couldn't care less.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @09:23PM (#26323941)
Respectfully, you and most people have no clue what plants experience. There were those studies published in recent years that suggested plants "scream" when they are being eaten or destroyed, presumably to warn other plants.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by nearbuy on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:39PM (#26324829)
We don't know what anything or anyone else experiences internally. But we know enough to make some good guesses.

Plants lack a brain, the organ responsible for thoughts. There's no more reason to think they have thoughts than a cell inside your body, or a computer. All three can process stimuli and communicate.

"Screaming" is editorializing for page views. They found some plants will produce an ultrasonic click every few minutes when dry or when cut. Because it's sound, and because we're looking at it with a human bias, some articles used the term "scream". But it's similar to when plants release chemical signals to communicate. Just because it's sound, it doesn't indicate they subjectively feel pain anymore than chemical signals would. (And chemical signals are used by cells in your body, and that also isn't evidence for consciousness.)

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by dane-pgp on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @06:12AM (#26326963)
> They found some plants will produce an ultrasonic click every few minutes when dry or when cut.

By the same logic, I suppose rocks "scream" when they are dropped on the ground.

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:53PM (#26324907)
Would anesthetization before killing animals address this issue?
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by nearbuy on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @12:29AM (#26325113)
That seems like a bit of a non sequitur. I thought we were discussing whether plants have feelings.

Killing animals painlessly is certainly better than killing them painfully. There are a lot more problems than just the killing though. From the Wikipedia article on slaughterhouses:

> Eiznitz interviewed slaughterhouse workers representing over two million hours of experience, who, without exception, told her that they have beaten, strangled, boiled and dismembered animals alive or have failed to report those who do. The workers described the effects the violence has had on their personal lives, with several admitting to being physically abusive or taking to alcohol and other drugs.

> The HFA alleges that workers are required to kill up to 1,100 hogs an hour and end up taking their frustration out on the animals. Eisnitz interviewed one worker, who had worked in ten slaughterhouses, about pig production. He told her:

> "Hogs get stressed out pretty easy. If you prod them too much, they have heart attacks. If you get a hog in the chute that's had the shit prodded out of him and has a heart attack or refuses to move, you take a meat hook and hook it into his bunghole. You try to do this by clipping the hipbone. Then you drag him backwards. You're dragging these hogs alive, and a lot of times the meat hook rips out of the bunghole. I've seen hams – thighs – completely ripped open. I've also seen intestines come out. If the hog collapses near the front of the chute, you shove the meat hook into his cheek and drag him forward."

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by thorin on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @05:32AM (#26326732)
Ozzy Osbourne's first job was working in a slaughterhouse. It had a big affect on him! Seriously, check out his book.

Also I have a friend who was vegetarian as a teenager, she wanted to become a vet and one of the things they do is suggest you go to a slaughterhouse and see how it works. She is no longer a vegetarian and loves eating meat, but she didn't become a vet either!

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by sjy on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:16PM (#26324690)
This is ridiculous. Consciousness may be mysterious, but the fact that something emits sound when you break it doesn’t bring it into the same ethical domain as cows and other mammals with brains and an obvious desire and ability to avoid pain and death.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by zokula on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @01:53AM (#26325507)
Nice cop out. Plants have feelings too man.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:32PM (#26324780)
Then why don’t we just anesthetize animals before slaughtering them? Seems like it would take care of your concern.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by sjy on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @12:07AM (#26324993)
The same reason anaesthesia doesn’t make it okay to kill humans. There’s lots more on this in chapter 4 (“What's Wrong with Killing?”) of Singer’s Practical Ethics, if you’re interested.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @12:44AM (#26325212)
What’s the difference between an anesthetized animal and a plant? We literally call brain dead mammals “vegetables”.
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by bjoli on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @01:45PM (#26332654)
Well, if we are to follow the parent's mention of Peter Singer, you could go check out just about any source of preference utilitarianism. Briefly:

An animal has a conscious will to live on, a preference so to say, and those preferences are the basis of moral consideration.

A plant lacks those kinds of preferences (lacking any brain activity - what we can see are mostly just hormonal cell responses and such; things that all living cells have) and thus the plant in itself is not worthy of moral consideration.

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by cecilpl2 on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:47PM (#26323317)
The Arrogant Worms had a good take on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by hamax on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @01:44AM (#26325476)
The argument has never been that it's only ok for humans to live if we do zero harm. It's obvious that we can't do that. And that's fine. Human life is worth much more than anything else for us humans, so eating something to survive is necessary and ethical. Same logic applies also to vaccines that need animal products in production. I would prefer if they wouldn't, but I'm not judging anyone for taking it.

What we're talking about here is that simply because steak is s bit tastier than tofu or saitan isn't good enough reason to slaughter 50 billion animals per year and destroying a good amount of environment while doing it.

Re:Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KF... by briefcomment on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @07:55AM (#26327700)
Maybe we find it tasty for evolutionary reasons. We’ve been doing this for millions of years, is it wise to write off a part of our diet so fast?