Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex

Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by KronisLV on Friday February 26, 2021 @05:31AM (#26273352)

And yet, Docker Compose is pretty popular for local development, so much so, that it's not uncommon to find a docker-compose.yml in the repositories for many open source projects. And Docker Swarm builds on that, by bridging the gap between Docker Compose and multi-server deployments, with tools like Swarmpit and Podman for easier management of it as well, much like Rancher does for Kubernetes. I agree that Docker Swarm isn't developed as actively as it should be, but disagree that it should be avoided and disagree that it should be allowed to die. In my opinion, it's a more minimalistic and more sane approach to container orchestration with minimal up front investment (just install Docker and edit your Compose files a bit with deploy constraints, you're ready to go).

Hashicorp's Nomad is good if you have a strong engineering department or need to run mixed workloads (e.g. both containers and native processes) because its abstractions are well suited for this, but HCL, their DSL for describing deployments, doesn't map nicely to neither Docker, nor Docker Compose files, knowledgebases or tutorials. Nomad's integration with Consul is a major boon, but the need to run your own CA for safe communication between nodes, Nomad's read-only Web UI, and the oddity of HCL at times also makes it a non starter for me and some other people.

At the end of the day, these are just two data points, sadly the job market for Kubernetes also dwarfs everything else and sadly many companies will be burned by this and will learn nothing at the end of the day. Ideally, i think that the best route would be evaluating the orchestrators and other technologies that you want to use by doing pilot projects and such, and looking at them in real world circumstances, to determine their fit for your goals and needs (Web UIs will matter for some, but not for others, for example; as will onboarding and the need for long term investment vs plug and play).

Edit: as for Kubernetes, personally i find the K3s distribution to be an almost reasonable alternative to Swarm/Nomad, if the situation calls for it: https://k3s.io/

Edit #2: it would actually be pretty awesome to read more about your experience in this article that you're writing!

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Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by stewartmcgown on Friday February 26, 2021 @06:03AM (#26273541)

Absolutely. We use Swarm in production at ecoeats and it's a dream for simple clustering with multiple services. Using Hetzner clouds volume plugin gives EBS-like functionality too.

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Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by rigrassm on Friday February 26, 2021 @02:29PM (#26278802)

> Nomad's read-only Web UI,

Nomad's UI has a good number of functionalities that can be controlled through it. Sure, there are some more lower level operations that are CLI only(though this seems to be something they are actively working to improve on) but most of that probably won't be needed but someone just trying to run a couple containers on a single node.

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Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by KronisLV on Friday February 26, 2021 @07:50AM (#26274234)

Correction:

> Swarmpit and Podman

I actually meant Swarmpit ( https://swarmpit.io/ ) and Portainer ( https://www.portainer.io/ ).

Podman is another container runtime that acts as an alternative to Docker (even if it is not feature complete), so i misspoke.

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Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by drewlander on Friday February 26, 2021 @09:00AM (#26274791)

We use swarm for a small cluster in production a well. Extremely easy, zero downtime deployments are fantastic. I can explain it to someone else and quickly get them up to speed. Having said that, the fact that it seems to be on life support has made me look at other alternatives, even a simple docker-compose per node.

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Re:Google admits Kubernetes container tech is too complex by alephu5 on Friday February 26, 2021 @08:35AM (#26274586)

I quite like swarm for its compatibility with docker-compose, in particular to have the option of zero downtime deploys. If I wanted to manage a real cluster though I'd probably use nomad or GKE to avoid getting burned when the system is under load.

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