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Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by sudosysgen on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:08PM (#26266795)
Unions do not rent seek. They provide value to society via higher wages and act as a counterbalance to externalities from capital.

They are indeed not a cure, but the cure to the symptoms we are seeing is nothing short of a total overhaul of the capitalist system, which is both not politically feasible, and requires something like unions to make politically feasible to begin with. That is because by definition such a changé even if it was in the larger interests of society wouldn't be in the interests of capital.

Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by cmrdporcupine on Thursday February 25, 2021 @03:03PM (#26267516)
"There were and are workers’ unions in communist countries." Most independent unions in those countries were/are destroyed. The "unions" in China, etc. or the former USSR were/are essentially arms of the Stalinist Communist Parties, and rarely if ever have any political independence or ability to oppose the employer (the state, or a company that the state has given privileges to).
Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by sudosysgen on Thursday February 25, 2021 @03:06PM (#26267560)
I completely agree with you, but I think you might have replied to the wrong post.
Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by cmrdporcupine on Thursday February 25, 2021 @10:14PM (#26271030)
I replied to yours because HN wouldn't let me reply to the child comment. Not sure why. Figured my leaf node would show up next to the sibling :-)
Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by lr4444lr on Thursday February 25, 2021 @04:24PM (#26268519)
Minimum wage laws and excess credentialing can definitely be considered rent seeking.
Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by kennywinker on Thursday February 25, 2021 @06:00PM (#26269447)
Those activities only fit the definition of rent-seeking if you consider the value of labor as only what the market will bear. By that logic, if I offer a job at $5/hour and someone takes it, any attempt by that employee to get paid above $5 is "rent-seeking".

But that brings us right back to my original point: if my choice is starvation or $5/hour, I'm going to take the $5, but that's a coercive choice. I was forced into it by the threat of death. Now explain to me how that's different from holding a gun to someone and forcing them to work? You didn't determine the value of my labor, you determined that I don't want to die.

So an attempt to increase the cost of labor (minimum wages, credentialing/protectionism) is an attempt to extract the true value of labor, even though the threat of death-by-starvation remains. Like a previous commenter said - unless we want to radically re-org our society - that threat of death is irreducible. For example, if every person was granted enough arable land to subsist off of by the state, we'd see a very different labor market.

Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by sudosysgen on Thursday February 25, 2021 @04:53PM (#26268819)
Minimum wage laws are unrelated to unions, and prevent corporate rent seeking in welfare states.
Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by mc32 on Thursday February 25, 2021 @02:33PM (#26267141)
There were and are workers’ unions in communist countries. They didn’t always have their worker’ best interests in mind. Often they were a tool of the communist state to control workers. In addition sometimes you had student movements pitted against workers’ unions and so on.

Exploitation or at the minimum the potential for it exists in every economic system. It’s not a feature exclusive to capitalism as much as people dream it to be so. Even in a barter economy, can I not take advantage of another worker? Of course I can!

Re:Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees by sudosysgen on Thursday February 25, 2021 @03:07PM (#26267574)
I never said that we should install Soviet socialism/state-capitalism, it's not a good system.

Workers unions in socialist countries were basically illegal, there was only one legally allowed union pretty much. In the Soviet Union the role of labour unions were mostly for the state to resolve interpersonal problems, and in theory to allow the state to receive feedback from employees to optimize production, but not in practice due to dysfunctions because of the broken political and economic framework.