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Re:BTC Endgame by Laforet on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:12PM (#26198699)
How would a hyperinflation on the US dollar cause civilization to stop?

In any case, crypto trading since 2017 has been nothing but people buying and selling imaginary ticker symbols on unregulated exchanges.

For example, XVG and ETC has been subject to successful 51% attacks more than once and every time the price was hardly affected. And each time the "solution" to deep chain reorg involved the exchanges freezing all trading while developers rushed to add a hardcoded checkpoint. Once the "correct" version of history has been manually restored, everybody sing kumbaya and goes back to paying real cash for monopoly money.

Crypto need no proof of anything (PoS is still vaporware - debate me if you want), other than a shared delusion of value headed by the bucket shops.

Re:BTC Endgame by ericb on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:30PM (#26198882)
> PoS is still vaporware - debate me if you want

Tezos has a fully working Proof of stake system, and there are others. Feel free to share whatever you're on about, but I have a feeling "the debate" will be an exercise in goalpost moving.

Re:BTC Endgame by Laforet on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:53PM (#26199102)
Baseless accusations aside, please see my reply elsewhere in this thread for a response.
Re:BTC Endgame by ericb on Monday February 22, 2021 @08:09AM (#26224077)
Isn't calling currencies that people are already transacting hundreds of millions of dollars in volume on daily "vaporware" a baseless accusation?
Re:BTC Endgame by shadowgovt on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:38PM (#26198965)
> How would a hyperinflation on the US dollar cause civilization to stop?

The dollar is the value used to denominate world debt via the IMF. It's also (partially related to this fact) the "mattress currency" of a lot of nations... Nations hoard US dollars to back-stop their own economies, since if their currency starts to tank, they can use dollars to pay their international debts.

A worthless US dollar would have wide-ranging international currency disruption.

Re:BTC Endgame by tonfa on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:13PM (#26199319)
But then the IMF actually uses a basket of currency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights

(which has some similarity to the original libra proposal from FB)

Re:BTC Endgame by FridgeSeal on Saturday February 20, 2021 @02:42AM (#26202384)
Every now and then I get the impression that crypto currency advocates have seriously and repeatedly underestimated and/or misunderstood the complexity and scale of real-world economics.
Re:BTC Endgame by hanniabu on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:01PM (#26199724)
> For example, XVG and ETC

Try using projects that aren't "shitcoins" as an example

Re:BTC Endgame by eru on Sunday February 21, 2021 @02:19AM (#26211556)
> In any case, crypto trading since 2017 has been nothing but people buying and selling imaginary ticker symbols on unregulated exchanges.

You can trade regulated BTC futures. (Regulation by itself isn't much of a feature. But it can be a good indicator to see how well something is integrated into mainstream finance.)

> [...] other than a shared delusion of value headed by the bucket shops.

You shouldn't dismiss the original bucket shops like that.

Re:BTC Endgame by swinglock on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:24PM (#26198812)
> PoS is still vaporware

Why is that? Aren't Cardano and Polkadot PoS as they claim or doesn't it work?

Re:BTC Endgame by Laforet on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:52PM (#26199096)
No PoS algorithm has yet managed to solve the Nothing-at-stake problem, nor are they any more resistant to the abovementioned kind of hostile takeover by the nation state player compared to PoW.

I can't speak for every PoS coin out there but Cardano/Ouroborous explicitly assumes partial synchrony which is arguably never a good idea for a supposedly permissionless blockchain.

Re:BTC Endgame by StavrosK on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:07PM (#26199262)
So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork?

How does "there's a theoretical issue, and also it shares a problem with PoW" follow from "PoS is vaporware"?

Re:BTC Endgame by Laforet on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:09PM (#26199798)
There are no miners in a PoS chain, and PoS participants technically have nothing to lose through double forging. There are myriad different ways to find and punish the bad actors in such a situation. I don't claim to know about all of them, however they all make the same assumption you made that staked validators are rational people who look after their interest on the blockchain. But what if they are not rational, or worse, could make gains by disrupting the chain?

This is far from a solved problem, and this is the reason why PoS coins exist mostly on the fringe and ETH is taking very slow baby steps towards a ETH2. Nobody is certain that PoS will stand the test of time and my prediction is that it never will.

One might argue that they don't have to worry about anything judging from how well exchanges has been able to coordinate with the developers to pick a side whenever a major fork is spotted. But then it calls into the question whether we actually need a blockchain when a couple of interested party are the ones who gets to decide which fork is valid.

Re:BTC Endgame by gruez on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:59PM (#26199702)
> So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork?

Not exactly. The point of "nothing as stake" attack is that you can pull off the attack while having... "nothing a stake".

Re:BTC Endgame by StavrosK on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:12PM (#26199823)
Except the trust of the currency itself, as if you're attacking a currency you have a lot of stake in, you reduce the value of your stake because you attacked it.
Re:BTC Endgame by Laforet on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:16PM (#26199867)
I'm pretty sure short selling crypto is still a thing. Loss of stake is jut another cost of business.
Re:BTC Endgame by bouncycastle on Friday February 19, 2021 @09:03PM (#26200768)
Nothing-at-stake problem is solved with slashing & inactivity leaks.