News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by vidarh on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @06:47AM (#26153050)
I leave reviews for two reasons: To reward a seller when I really like something, and to punish a seller when I really hate something. Rarely in between.

Well written reviews are a common good, and there is good reason to believe that leaving reviews encourages others to do the same, and that helps me, so I do it.

Yes, I know there'll be fake reviews, but most of the time they are pretty easy to spot.

Not least because the reviews that swing things for me -- both towards buying and away from it -- are the negative reviews.

Most of the obvious fake ones are good reviews, but I'm usually more concerned about what the worst thing someone has to say about a product. If someone posts about a printer that it doesn't work with Linux, I won't buy it (at least not without double-checking and verifying that said reviewers info is outdated) no matter how many positive reviews there are. Meanwhile, if I can't find any negative reviews complaining about things I care about it will often convince me to buy.

That is a lot harder to game than getting a bunch of people to write that they love the product.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by nkrisc on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @06:52AM (#26153084)
You make good points, but on Amazon I just have to assume that all the reviews are fake. I've seen how easy it is to buy fake reviews, the lengths sellers go to get people to leave only 5-star reviews, and Amazon's inability or unwillingness to do anything about it.

Why do you think any of the reviews on Amazon are real? I think any random review you pull up is more likely than not to be fake. Of course, we can't know for sure, but Amazon has simply lost my trust.

I no longer believe any of the reviews on Amazon are real, and Amazon will have to prove to me they are before I ever trust a review on that site.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by vidarh on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:11AM (#26153162)
I think many of the reviews on Amazon are real because a lot of them are negative reviews warning people not to buy the product, and those are generally the ones I look at.

That's harder to game, because while a seller certainly could post a negative review citing some irrelevant flaw (and I have seen that), and hope that triggers buyers who don't care, they won't stop other people (like me) from posting negative reviews too, and what I'm looking for is products with a reasonable number of negative reviews where there is an absence of reviews mentioning things I care about.

I also know first hand from selling a novel on Amazon that you can perfectly well gain honest reviews in ways allowed by Amazon, and I also leave a reasonable number of reviews on Amazon myself, so I have every reason to expect at least a portion of the reviews to be honest.

Overall I've managed to avoid buying anything that appears to have been fake from Amazon, despite having bought a couple of thousand products at Amazon over the years (based on the order page stats, and taking off a few hundred as an estimate of digital only products)

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by meowster on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @12:39PM (#26156492)
Sellers also leave negative reviews for products from competing sellers.
Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by vidarh on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @03:03PM (#26158111)
This is irrelevant to me unless they 1) do so while describing specific flaws that I'll actually care about, and 2) every honest seller is affected by it.

It probably sucks to be an honest seller affected by it, but I've yet to find a situation where I have unable to find a product I'm happy with, so clearly they're not doing this often enough to affect me much.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by spzb on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @05:15PM (#26159436)
I've seen 1 star "reviews" on products that directly reference a specific competing product or seller that the "reviewer" recommends instead. You'd think with all of Amazon's computing power they could detect obvious scams like that.
Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by jodrellblank on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @08:42AM (#26153765)
> “Why do you think any of the reviews on Amazon are real?”

Because they contain facts which anchor them to reality and act as “proof of work” in some way.

I don’t care for a review which says “this camera takes amazing pictures” that could apply to any camera and is subjective, but one which says “the cover on the sd card slot is sharp and cut my finger twice” is likely someone who has used that specific camera, and has a specific comment, and while it could be faked - why would it be? Like the difference between house adverts that say “cozy kitchen” vs “marble countertops”, didn’t Freakonomics find that specifics increase value more than generalities because people know what a marble countertop is but a cozy kitchen is filler when there’s nothing good to say.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by thw0rted on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @05:53AM (#26235850)
I think you've got the right idea. It's about incentives.

With fake positive reviews, the seller has an incentive to leave them up, and Amazon has no particular incentive to remove them -- you, a random user, has to somehow convince Amazon to take them down.

With fake negative reviews, the seller has an incentive to get them taken down, and has the data to prove that the reviewer didn't actually buy the item. (Actually buying all your competitor's items to leave fake negative reviews about them would dramatically increase the cost of the tactic.)

End result: ignore positive reviews because they're easily faked, check negative reviews because they're probably accurate.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by PoignardAzur on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @01:31PM (#26157105)
Yeah, that's my heuristic too, but I'm worried it's going to get increasingly gamed as time goes on.

Especially since, you know, GTP-3 is a thing, and its effects are going to be felt pretty soon.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by peanutcracker on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:28AM (#26153256)
Why trust the negative reviews? I'm sure it is common to try to hurt the competition by leaving fake negative reviews. If a company is willing to buy positive reviews, why would they stop at buying negative reviews?

Worse, that way you would end up avoiding the "fair players" who don't leave fake negative reviews with the competition.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by dunnevens on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @08:04AM (#26153453)
Depends on the negative review. You ignore all the "it sucks" reviews. But the ones that go into detail about why it sucks are usually accurate. At least in my experience.

And in terms of trying to game out the fake reviews, I've found relying on the 2 to 3 star reviews are the best. The liars who are trying to trash the product tend towards 1 star. The liars who are trying to sell the product almost always go for 5 stars. 2 to 3 stars, sometimes 4, are usually the people who actually bought it.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by mrtranscendence on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @09:21AM (#26154073)
> Why trust the negative reviews?

Fake reviews aren’t all that cheap, in the scheme of things. Leaving bad reviews on the competition doesn’t have anywhere near the immediate impact on your bottom line as fake good reviews on your own products. I also haven’t seen reports of people being paid for bad reviews, when confessions of people being paid to write good reviews are all over the place.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by Bancakes on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @12:38PM (#26156483)
If someone can post fake negative reviews on Amazon, Amazon can certainly afford to false flag negative reviews on everyone else. So either both parties are truthful or both parties are manipulative. Plus, it takes nontrivial effort to plausibly explain how a product is defective.

In case a popular product is simply handled by Amazon or other sellers, they aren't responsible for the quality itself. Bad review of a keyboard on one site is as valid as on another.

Re:Fake Amazon reviews 'being sold in bulk' online by vidarh on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:36AM (#26153298)
Because it has worked fine in avoiding bad products so far, and while it would suck for fair players to lose my business, as long as I avoid bad products that is what matters most to me as a buyer.