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Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by httpsterio on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:34PM (#26138077)
as a Scandinavian, Sweden is one of the worst examples you could've picked for how COVID was handled.
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Sunday February 14, 2021 @09:06PM (#26138262)
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToS... (Baltics and UK added for perspective).

The fact is Sweden lies in middle of the Eurozone pack. It had low excess mortality in recent years, which left many very old people likely to die of/with Covid if they were not protected. I'm not switching topics to defend Sweden's policy. My note was about pop. density.

If you want to go at it about Sweden vs. other countries in Scandinavia, we can take it to Twitter:

https://twitter.com/geenlid/status/1360771792105730049 (thread)

https://twitter.com/jhnhellstrom/status/1354051901751484419 (radial excess mortality plot)

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by cygx on Sunday February 14, 2021 @09:33PM (#26138427)
The fact is Sweden lies in middle of the Eurozone pack.

But at the bottom of the Nordics: It is somewhat suggestive that none of Sweden's direct neighbours show significant excess mortality in 2020...

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Sunday February 14, 2021 @09:53PM (#26138539)
There are differences among these countries, but first, let's talk about reporting. Sweden says any death within a month of a Covid diagnosis (no PCR+ required, another can of worms) is due to Covid. Other Nordics are less sloppy. This makes Sweden count more deaths.

Finland is a hot mess on all health stats.

Norway has done better but also disavowed lockdowns.

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by cygx on Sunday February 14, 2021 @10:08PM (#26138626)
Policy concerning covid diagnosis is not relevant when the metric under discussion is excess mortality.
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Sunday February 14, 2021 @10:21PM (#26138689)
I agree (modulo "top" vs. "bottom" when we're talking about worse being greater-than), but your "at the bottom of the Nordics" was not about excess mortality.
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by cygx on Sunday February 14, 2021 @10:54PM (#26138864)
Quote: "It is somewhat suggestive that none of Sweden's direct neighbours show significant excess mortality in 2020..."

Also, I wonder what you mean by Norway disavowing lockdowns? Because they did institute fairly strict measures on March 12, eventually going so far as forbidding people to travel to their cabins to avoid putting strain on rural infrastructure.

Was there some sort of public disavowal after the fact?

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Sunday February 14, 2021 @11:03PM (#26138938)
The “bottom of the pack” was in reference to ourworldindata cumulative Covid deaths (counted differently in different countries). Could you please link me to the multi-country excess morality data?
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by cygx on Sunday February 14, 2021 @11:18PM (#26139033)
> Could you please link me to the multi-country excess morality data?

Not sure if there's something better, I just clicked through https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-raw-deat... via 'Change country'.

As the graphs can be misleading due to the different scaling of the y-axis depending on the country, I also pulled the data and did my own analysis, eg comparing 'Sweden' against 'all Nordics' and 'all Nordics but Sweden'.

For Denmark, Finland and Norway combined, there were fewer deaths at the beginning of the year compared to the previous 5-year average, and a bit more deaths in April and May - basically a wash, ie 'no worse than the flu'.

The situation in Sweden is different, with significant excess mortality.

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Sunday February 14, 2021 @11:37PM (#26139152)
Thanks. Any age-cohort data?
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by cygx on Sunday February 14, 2021 @11:59PM (#26139269)
No, my own dive down the Covid rabbit hole has been fairly shallow so far (I used to keep track of local numbers, but eventually stopped; a couple of weeks ago, I looked at excess mortality in the Nordics because Sweden continued to pop up in online discussions).
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by ketamine__ on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:53PM (#26138186)
It depends on what you are optimizing for...
Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by BrendanEich on Monday February 15, 2021 @12:52AM (#26139544)
Agreed.

In any case, Swedish doctors knew not to abuse ventilators, as did doctors in many other places. This point got lost in the usual assumptive attack on Sweden, but it's the only reason I mentioned that country. A friend in biotech talked to an ER doc in Stockholm who confirmed that they would never intubate + vent on a closed system, as NYC hospitals apparently did in an unethical attempt to control spread.

Re:Brendan Eich on the Lex Fridman Podcast [video] by lr1970 on Monday February 15, 2021 @09:18PM (#26150196)
> as NYC hospitals apparently did in an unethical attempt to control spread.

I am curious where did you git this from? In the spring 2020 COVID patients in New York City ICUs were intubated not to control spread of the virus (there were many more actively shedding virus patients on regular hospital floor) but to sustain patients' life when their oxygen saturation drops dangerously low. Some patients were so bad that they were put on ECMO. Putting people on a ventilator was not an issue in itself, it is keeping them on ventilator for weeks on time that was problematic.