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Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by whatshisface on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:57AM (#26102978)
>Spending cryptocurrency would result in selling that cryptocurrency, which would drive the price down. That’s not what cryptocurrency investors actually want.

That's a misunderstanding of how these things work. If selling drove the price down, then the price would never go up! Why? Because nobody can buy without a sale on the other side of the transaction. The common belief that selling lowers the price comes from the fact that if you put out a big sell-now order on a market, it will eat through the asks sitting there already. However in the slightly longer term others will put up new asks, up to the equilibrium where the price is close enough to the perceived value that there's no money to be made, after tax, by going in to move it closer. The phrase "Sell! Sell! Sell!" is based on the idea of selling at any price because you want to get rid of it so badly, but that's not a normal sale. That only happens when a party suddenly realizes that they have too much of something, not when they are doing everything as expected.

Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by imtringued on Thursday February 11, 2021 @06:45PM (#26109087)
There are two sides of an orderbook. There are sell orders (ask) and buy orders (bid).

When your sell order is higher than the highest bid it will be put onto the order book. If your buy order is lower than the lowest ask it will be put onto the order book.

You can sell or buy instantaneously by fulfilling an existing order. When you do a market order the exchange automatically presents you with the most favorable order. Once that favorable order is gone it will take the second most favorable order and so on. Each new order is less favorable than the last one.

By repeatedly selling Bitcoin you are clearing the order book on the buy side. Less buyers mean lower prices.

Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by derefr on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:19PM (#26109769)
But the whole point of a bank doing something like this, is that they have the reserves needed to not have to buy/sell on the open market. They can take your "sold" token and give you the observed market rate for it; then put the tokens you gave them in their own holding account, listing them on the exchange for the price they're willing to pay, and wait. They're in no hurry to liquidate.

If a buyer then comes along who's willing to pay that price—and that price is higher than the current market price for the token—then the token goes up in value.

Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by PragmaticPulp on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:03AM (#26103065)
A system for spending Bitcoin would inherently put sell orders in at market price (directly or indirectly). This consumes the highest priced bids and moves the price down.

It’s the same story with any currency. Basic foreign exchange concepts.

Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by whatshisface on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:19AM (#26103325)
Smart sellers don't sell everything at the market price as soon as they can, because that would cut through the crust of fair asks into the mantle of waiting opportunists. Instead they spread it out, at a rate the ongoing volume can bear.
Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by ivalm on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:07PM (#26105003)
If you sell Bitcoin every time you buy bread then you just sell whenever. It will be a large flow of market orders even if there aren’t enough asks.
Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by whatshisface on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:14PM (#26105085)
You don't sell Bitcoin every time you buy bread, the merchant obtains bitcoin and sells it when they think they should. If nobody is holding Bitcoin, you have to buy it when you buy bread, which means there's a 1:1 balance between buying and selling with each transaction. If everybody is holding bitcoin, then the merchant will not mind waiting a little to offload it, because they know they will do better by taking their time.

I guess you're describing a situation where Bitcoin is used purely as a store of value and never as a medium of exchange. I can agree that a fiat store of value, if never used as a medium of exchange, or even a numeraire, is on very shaky ground.

Re:MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies by ivalm on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:38PM (#26105396)
Baker definitely should sell Bitcoin every time someone buys bread, otherwise they would be taking on currency risk, which is insane. Since they paid for flour/labor/amortized capex in fiat, if BTC price moves down they won’t be able to cover their obligation. This means a baker need to sell at least as much BTC as would cover their fiat costs. Since bakery margins are low it means they should sell most of the BTC they get every time someone buy bread from them.

Again, in real/practical world merchants are not there to invest in crypto, they are there to produce tangible goods and collect surplus of exchange tokens —- everything that is not profit needs to be de-risked.