Would it be ethical for them to abandon all of their customers in Pakistan over this?
Do you think Apple has the power to change that?
If they don’t do business there their customers are objectively worse off.
Not only do they not have religious freedom, but they also don’t have access to technology.
That seems wrong to me.
I wonder what people in Pakistan would say?
Would most of them really want these companies to leave?
Despite being asked, you haven’t actually explained how they can do this.
Also, I ask again: do the people of Pakistan want Apple to abandon their customers in Pakistan?
You go try asking them.
You can’t seriously think this would have any effect on Pakistan’s regime.
> You go try asking them.
Ok, so you don’t know what people in Pakistan want.
How is it ethical for you to argue that they should not be allowed Google or Apple’s products?
This is just about you wanting to shame Apple.
I care about hypocrisy. I just don’t think it’s a moral issue, because everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view.
I care about religious freedom quite deeply, indeed more so than most freedoms. I am interested in constructive steps to improve it. Pakistan is a theocracy, where as many as 90% of the population are Sunni Muslim. The Ahmediyya are a modern sect founded in the late 1800s, who are regarded as non-Muslims by the Pakistani constitution. The vast majority of the Pakistani population supports this view.
I don’t think you know much about how to change this situation, and I think it’s fairly obvious that Apple or Google leaving, as you have already admitted elsewhere, would not have a significant effect.
It’s really not clear what you are trying to achieve, except for some shaming of Apple for a bullshit reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
Also, it is right to call it like it is. Telling the truth as you see it is the right thing to do. Not telling the truth is not right.
This is a form of self-delusion. You believe you see an absolute truth, rather than just a perspective.
If you read it the Wikipedia article, you’ll see it mentions hypocrisy as a moral principle in Islam, and other religions.
However it also talks about how it’s a psychological feature of being human.
According to that article, you are a hypocrite, along with everyone else.
That isn’t grounds for a moral foundation.
There is a distinction between hypocrisy and lying.
And, as I have already stated, everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view.
I see you continue to confirm that you have nothing to offer that can help freedom of religion in Pakistan.
You have never actually claimed that freedom of religion was your goal, and conceded that it wasn’t when I pressed you, but you have criticized me for not caring about it.
That seems like a clear case of hypocrisy to me - criticizing someone else for not caring about something, that you yourself do not care about.
If the US government includes technology restrictions as sanctions against Pakistan, I expect Apple would comply.
There is no international sanctions campaign aimed at forcing Pakistan to support freedom of religion.
There isn’t even any significant international response.
The argument is that in the absence of any international action against Pakistan that might actually cause change, it is better for the people to continue to have smartphones, access to Google search, etc.
If there was any international political movement for change in Pakistan, and Apple or Google were arguing against sanctions, then you would have a point.
Someone has to be sensible, and not hurt people just to please vocal activists in another country.
Suppose you lived in England in 1861. Would you choose to do business with the Confederacy? Where is your magic calculator that shows you would do more harm than good by not doing business with them? In reality there isn’t one and you can’t make the calculation based on that. Instead, the magic calculator always swings to do business because it is profitable to do so.
What happened to Google when it left China? Those services just got magically replaced. Search replaced. Streaming replaced. Cloud services replaced.
It seems like you don’t actually care at all about religious freedom in Pakistan then.
Also not really privacy since your device is backed up to Apple’s servers where they can conveniently hand them over to the US government. That’s right. If you are a citizen of say Germany, does the US government have access to your data?
https://www.sott.net/article/427853-Backdoored-backup-FBI-ba...
The difference is that in the US, Apple pretends to be for privacy whereas in China there are no such pretensions. Also because of greater reach, US companies have access to far more countries and people who are not at all protected by US laws.
Google stored it everyone’s data everywhere and somehow the US had access to ALL of it unencrypted.
Tim Cook says privacy is an issue of morality
- operating in (wealthy) oppressive regimes
- denouncing those same oppressive regimes
None of what we're seeing in Pakistan right now is new for tech company SOP. Google Maps shows different borders depending on the location of the originating query. Twitter masks certain tweets for users in Germany because some speech that's legal in the US is illegal in Germany and the penalties are harsh for propagating it.
It's a big world, and the US doesn't have a monopoly on law or ethics in the international community.
I will believe it when they pay their taxes
If corporations are setting morality apart from the law, they become another authority. Then we have a different set of problems; at least in some countries, the government authority is elected. CEOs aren't elected by the people, and the emperor has nothing on the whims of Jeff Bezos or Jack Dorsey.