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Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by lmm on Thursday February 04, 2021 @09:10PM (#26032261)
The same is true of Signal in most practical ways. You can only run it on platforms that are fundamentally closed-source (either iOS or Google Play Services), so there's no reason to believe the RNGs it uses (and therefore all your session keys) are not backdoored. And you can only install it through official app stores where it's difficult or impossible to inspect what binary you have or "pin" a given version. So I don't see that it's meaningfully more secure than WhatsApp.
Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by 2cb on Thursday February 04, 2021 @09:50PM (#26032504)
The mere fact it hoovers up less metadata alone makes it more private. I also trust the developers more way way more than I trust Facebook. That's a personal preference though and if you trust WhatsApp and don't mind that it leaks contacts and other metadata to Facebook to profile you then use WhatsApp.

If I wanted to I could install a fork of Signal that doesn't require Google Play [1] and run it on any non-Google Android build. I would do if it wasn't for the fact I'm currently using an iPhone.

[1] https://langis.cloudfrancois.fr/

Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by acct776 on Thursday February 04, 2021 @11:54PM (#26033283)
I run Signal on GrapheneOS and find this comment incorrect and borderline offensive.
Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by lmm on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:42AM (#26033496)
I see that Signal no longer depends on Google Play Services specifically. However it's still the case that it depends on proprietary Google code (it just includes that code in its own APK now) and still can't practically be installed without auto-update (again, it just includes that in its APK).
Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by tga_d on Friday February 05, 2021 @01:12AM (#26033616)
The "proprietary Google code" is a library with a well defined API, you can see what it has access to. I agree that Signal should take it out, but it's not an especially big deal from a security perspective.

The auto update functionality just tells you that an update is available, you can choose not to install it. You can also independently verify that the sha256 sum matches the one given on the website, and that the binary that sha256 sum corresponds to is produced via the reproducible build instructions. There are occasional bugs (I'd estimate a couple times a year, though it's less and less frequent) that causes the reproducible build to not match the provided build, and it's quickly noticed by someone and an issue opened in the issue tracker. If there were no explanation or no quick resolution, people would publicly raise a stink about it.

Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by xorcist on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:26AM (#26033967)
> you can choose not to install it

There is a time bomb in there and servers will kick you out regularly unless you have updated.

If you get a patched client running you could probably change whatever string is required but some sort of action is required on the client side.

Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by tga_d on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:23PM (#26038702)
Sure, but that's an unrelated phenomenon to the security implications being discussed. The argument against auto-updates is "it's running code without my permission or ability to audit first"; putting a recency requirement for client-server communication doesn't impact that concern, and I don't see any reason why it would be considered a bad thing.
Re:Help users in Iran reconnect to Signal by lmm on Sunday February 07, 2021 @09:01PM (#26060020)
> The argument against auto-updates is "it's running code without my permission or ability to audit first"; putting a recency requirement for client-server communication doesn't impact that concern

It makes it impractical to actually audit the code you're running, because you're forced to re-audit on Signal's schedule. And it makes those audits mostly meaningless: what are you going to do if you decide a given code change is suspicious? You can't keep using the version of the code you were happy with, so you'd better have a plan in place for moving off Signal quickly - but in that case how much can you gain from using it at all?