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Re:I hate how programming has become just another business p... by jfengel on Thursday February 04, 2021 @10:15AM (#26025981)
Does that give you any more sympathy for the artists who would rather be painting oils than designing yet another ad for hemorrhoid cream? Or poets who really don't want to be copy-editing your documentation?

Most of us would rather be creating art than be beholden to crappy commercial interests. Most of us would rather be the one giving orders than taking them, or compromising our art to other people.

We programmers have been incredibly fortunate to be considered "golden boys" (and a few girls). We spend no more time mastering our craft than the poet or the painter, but we get paid a lot more to do it. We still don't make as much as the one who brings in the seed money and keeps most of the profits, but because reasons we haven't been relegated to the barely-tolerated and barely-paid status of the people who write documentation or make our products attractive, no matter how good they are at it.

We programmers have, I think, become more associated with those who get rich off the process -- the CEOs and CTOs and such -- than the ones doing what we think of as grunt work rather than creative work. We get to dream that our side projects are just one elevator pitch away from our own C suite.

I'm suggesting that you're on to something considerably bigger than a personal gripe. This is a very widespread thing, and maybe the alternative to being unhappy about the difference between our side projects and our day jobs is to help everybody reconsider what "day job" really means. There are a lot of people who would like to be more creative in their work -- including collaborating creatively -- and perhaps finding that people would actually enjoy (and pay for) the results of that.

Re:I hate how programming has become just another business p... by burntoutfire on Thursday February 04, 2021 @02:30PM (#26028871)
> e still don't make as much as the one who brings in the seed money and keeps most of the profits, but because reasons we haven't been relegated to the barely-tolerated and barely-paid status of the people who write documentation or make our products attractive, no matter how good they are at it.

I don't think it's lack of regulations that makes our salaries high (barring the sky-high wages at FAANG). For example, in banking - a heavily regulated industry - coders still make way more than people who can write well ("poets"). I think it's just basic supply and demand, there's just not enough people good enough at coding compared to how many are currently needed across all industries. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Re:I hate how programming has become just another business p... by jfengel on Thursday February 04, 2021 @03:17PM (#26029299)
It's definitely supply and demand, but it's not clear to me why the demands for programmers and "poets" are so out of whack. We have a collective notion that the work of the writers don't matter, and so we just collectively decide not to pay them very well, and they're forced to accept it.

Meanwhile, even pretty poor programmers can make a fair bit of money, rather than being priced out. But there are a ton of them, and honestly, there could be even more. Basic programming isn't that hard. Lots of people do it in high school, self-taught, and even more could do that given opportunity and encouragement.

I'm definitely enjoying it while it lasts. I've been expecting it to stop for three decades. I've been wrong the whole time and it looks like it will last the rest of my career.

But I'd really like to see us take a good long look at the whole thing. A lot of talent is going to waste. I'm happy to benefit, but wish others could, too.

Re:I hate how programming has become just another business p... by burntoutfire on Thursday February 04, 2021 @03:36PM (#26029500)
Writing something in English is just easier that writing code that compiles and works. You can't bullshit a compiler, but you definitely can put a lot of bullshit into a Word document without anyone noticing (thus making your job a lot easier). That's why coding is harder, more demanding, requires more intelligence and work ethic. Hell, I've known pretty smart coders who lacked the work ethic and they quickly switched to scrum master or analyst roles. They're making less, but as one of them openly admitted, they barely do anything compared to the coders.