I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by throwaways885 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:02AM (#26002568)

I think a big issue is there's no discipline in the Linux community. The Kernel team has done an amazing job of preserving ABI compatibility through every last byte, but then you look at projects like glib or GNOME which seem to pride themselves on huge, sweeping, changes and don't care if downstream consumers are hurt by the changes.

Edit: glib not glibc

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by Conan_Kudo on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:09AM (#26002681)

The Linux kernel team does not preserve ABI in almost all scenarios, just only specifically with the syscall interface. Everything else is not stable.

The GNU C standard library has binary backwards compatibility going back 20 years. They take great pains to preserve that. Are you thinking of glib instead of glibc? The former is from GNOME, and the latter is not.

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by floatboth on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:47AM (#26003247)

"Syscall interface" is what most people mean by "$SYSTEM's ABI"

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by thu2111 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @12:04PM (#26003523)

These days half of Linux is exported via filesystems, IOCTLs and other random pseudo-syscalls. Ignoring drivers, of course. The kernel isn't really that stable.

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by the_why_of_y on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @04:23PM (#26006916)

> Edit: glib not glibc

glib 2.0 was released in March of 2002, and has preserved ABI compatibility since then.

https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-changes.html

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by noobermin on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @08:33PM (#26009555)

Yes, he means gtk+, not glib. Glib is more fundamental and good from what I can tell.

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by pwdisswordfish6 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:18AM (#26002825)

> there's no discipline in the Linux community [...] look at projects like glibc or GNOME

So not the Linux community then. Outside it.

Do all the new GitHub-driven programmers who exclusively use MacBooks and constantly rev things with the same frequency not exist? Why is this still being presented as a freedesktop-related problem and not a general problem with creators' fickle and fleeting attention, when we have evidence that the category isn't as narrow as the pigeonhole you're trying to put things in?

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by zinekeller on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:25AM (#26002937)

> So not the Linux community then. Outside it.

Sadly, that ship has passed... long ago. When you encounter a random person about "Linux", they will think of the Linux ecosystem, not just the kernel. In other words, your and GP's definition of "Linux" is different, and they are both correct depending on how would you read it.

(And before you go almighty on definitions, the majority of linguists agree to just monitor - or "describe" - the words as normally and plainly used.)

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by pwdisswordfish6 on Friday February 05, 2021 @08:07PM (#26043159)

I'm aware of the equivocation, but there's absurdity in the statement "there's no discipline in the Linux community" demanding a definition that excludes Linux proper. Descriptivists and prescriptivists should agree that no matter where you lie on the spectrum, this is bonkers.

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Re:I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit by throwaways885 on Tuesday February 02, 2021 @11:50AM (#26003293)

No I do agree it's a general problem with software, but we're not talking about some rando throwing leftpad code up on GH. We're talking about a set of operating systems that clearly want more mainstream adoption being bewildered when they suck at respecting the user.

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