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Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by jcranmer on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:47PM (#25971733)
> Can anyone legitimately make the claim that the massive drop in value that cut off the price rise at the knees and allowed the worst short positions to cover their losses sub-$200 didn't materially harm the users?

Very probably. The general principle of Article III jurisprudence is that you have to demonstrate concrete, particularized harm to bring a case, not generalized, theoretical harm.

If your allegation is that your harm arises from "I could have made a killing if I bought and sold the stock at appropriate times," well that is theoretical harm (especially when you undercut buy alleging that you could have done so on other platforms). You'd probably have to allege that you attempted to buy (alternatively, sell) the stock and Robinhood prevented you from doing so, but the fact that you signed a contract saying that you acknowledge that Robinhood can prevent you from being certain stocks is going to be a challenging hurdle to overcome.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by pmichaud on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:07PM (#25971921)
I know nothing, so here's a question: instead of framing it like the concrete harm was lack of profit (which is theoretical), could they frame it as the concrete harm being that robinhood turned the situation from potentially profitable to no chance of profit?

Like if I'm fishing, I might not catch a fish that day, but if you collapse the pier I'm fishing from then you've concretely caused particular harm to my chances of catching a fish?

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by jcranmer on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:29PM (#25972126)
I am not a lawyer, and so I generally only know what law I find out from reading cases that interest me. And that means that while I do know several general legal principles, I am generally ignorant on how those legal principles actually get applied in boundary cases.

Answering this sort of question likely requires digging through cases at the district and circuit court level to find people who made this kind of argument, and seeing if the court bought it or not. I'm not paid to do that, and the people who are are paid big bucks to do so.

But my suspicion is that you have to draw a pretty strong link between the actions of the defendant and your losses, to the point that you really no had other option than to eat the losses. In the case of the pier collapse, you might be able to swing that if there were nowhere else you could fish from. But in the case of Robinhood, I'd be surprised if you could sustain that argument, especially because you've signed this pesky contract.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by ummonk on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:54PM (#25971812)
The harm is more particularized for those whose stock was auto-sold at the dip for a margin call because they had bought the stock in an instant account.
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by jcranmer on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:04PM (#25971899)
There are definitely same claims for harm that are stronger than others. Whether any of the 6 (!) class action suits currently pending actually claim that harm is a different matter.

Of the stuff I see on court listener:

* 3 don't have documents available (and I'm not going to bother signing up for PACER just to find out)

* 1 has a claim predicated on "I could have bought or shorted GME" (yeah, not gonna fly)

* 1 has a claim predicated on "the value of GME stock fell, causing me loss" (doesn't mention if the stock was actually sold, so it's purely paper loss, so really not gonna fly)

* 1 has a claim predicated on "I tried to buy, but couldn't" (best chance of succeeding, but I think they're still screwed anyways)

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by tptacek on Saturday January 30, 2021 @04:02PM (#25972948)
You should sign up for PACER. It's easy (although the web interface is horrible) and costs basically nothing at the scale you'd be using it at. It's one of those things you won't use often but you'll be happy you set it up, like, a couple times a year.
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by jcranmer on Saturday January 30, 2021 @05:35PM (#25973707)
Most of the cases I'm interested in, someone has already signed up for PACER and added them to courtlistener by the time I get to it. Or it's a SCOTUS case and the entire docket is accessible for free on supremecourt.gov :-)
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by tptacek on Saturday January 30, 2021 @05:41PM (#25973754)
It was the same for me, but I like it when I can grab something that hasn't hit Courtlistener yet for, like, 50 cents. :)

It's a good message board power-up, I guess.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by r00fus on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:05PM (#25973934)
And install/use RECAP so you can make PACER use more free.

https://free.law/recap

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by gruez on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:01PM (#25971874)
Is there proof of this? This gets repeated a lot and the best "proof" I've seen was a wsb post claiming they got sold "without [their] permission", but stopped short of saying whether they were using margin or not.
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by nrmitchi on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:10PM (#25971955)
One piece of the "Robinhood Abstraction" that is popping up a lot right now is that the fact that a large majority would have been using margin, but not known it.

Much of the nice and fast experience that Robinhood offers ("Just signed up? You can start trading!", "Initiated a transfer? Start trading now!", "Just sold something? Rebuy something else immediately!") are all powered by the fact that these are all technical using margin.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by Jommi on Saturday January 30, 2021 @03:41PM (#25972795)
If you use the "instant deposit" feature (its ON by default) on Robinhood, you are using margin. Its one of the weird things people never really though about.
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by nullc on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:58PM (#25971846)
Loss of an unlawful gain wouldn't be an actionable harm in any case.

"I intended to buy at a higher price in order to manipulate the price of an asset well above its value, and was harmed by being delayed until a later time where I could buy it at a lower price" -- not going to fly.

If RH is inadequately disclosing the risks of margin trading then some of their customers that had positions closed due to margin requirements might have cases.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by dmurray on Saturday January 30, 2021 @04:14PM (#25973059)
The vast majority of GME buyers could never be considered guilty of unlawful market manipulation. "I intended to buy the stock because I thought it would go up" is a pretty good reason. (OTOH I don't really believe such investors have a strong case against RH).
Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by nullc on Saturday January 30, 2021 @05:02PM (#25973432)
You miss the point of my comment, I think.

"I was harmed because I was delayed from buying at a higher price and instead could only buy at a lower price later!" -- only being able to buy at a lower price later is only a "harm" in the sense that it prevented price manipulation.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by prepend on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:00PM (#25973895)
In this case the concrete harm is easy to show as someone could just show the number of shares their account could have covered purchase at $200/share when buys were blocked. And multiply that by the gain they would have made selling Friday.

This is an easily quantifiable and concrete claim that might be brought up by every Robinhood user with cash in their account.

They would be safer if the stock had continued to drop.

Re:Analysis: Robinhood protected from lawsuits by user agree... by PartiallyTyped on Saturday January 30, 2021 @04:22PM (#25973134)
Short Ladder attack during low volume caused by inability to buy.