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Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by slg on Friday January 22, 2021 @12:45PM (#25874041)
The funniest part is that this is paired with a lack of belief in the free market. Think of all the real estate that is taken up with gas stations. Do we think those are all going to exist forever despite a shrinking customer base? As society transfers to more EVs, gas stations can transition to EV charging stations. Those stations can be denser too since a charger doesn't require much more room than a parking space. Combine that with the trend of faster and faster charging and the need for a dedicated home charger will decrease over time.
Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by cardiffspaceman on Friday January 22, 2021 @12:59PM (#25874198)
I keep hearing that gas stations aren't great businesses as they are, and if they do make money it is not on fuel. I found one article that is particularly negative, but not necessarily objective [1].

The closest gas station to me, on foot, has converted its mechanics bays to a great taco shop, its "office" to a liquor store with a great selection of spirits, and it has a full-size car wash operation wrapped around it.

So it seems like the most likely conversion would be that the gas station would swap gas pumps for chargers, in phases. Of course the best layout for chargers where charging takes the time it currently does is not the same as the best layout for fuel pumps, so it will be interesting to see how the transition goes.

So at present all the gas stations that I know of that seem viable are embedded in businesses that take up even more space, and the retail fuel business is just a part of it.

[1] https://www.franchise.city/buy-a-gas-station

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by slg on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:19PM (#25874400)
Many of those side businesses might be even more profitable with EV chargers as the main attraction rather than gas stations. EV charging doesn't require you to stay by the vehicle like gas fueling does (or at least is supposed to). Having a property with a constant flow of people who have 5-15 minutes of free time sounds like a great way to make money for a taco shop, liquor store, general convenience store, or any number of businesses.
Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by randcraw on Friday January 22, 2021 @02:12PM (#25875031)
Spare time is becoming ever more precious these days. It's tilting at windmills to suggest that popup businesses near a charging station can hope to soak up the excess time lost to recharging in ways that most of us will happily adopt.

The only viable path forward for EVs is to reduce recharge time or make it invisible (do it outside rush hour). Until then I see no way for them to displace hybrids as primary family cars.

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by slg on Friday January 22, 2021 @03:13PM (#25875810)
>Spare time is becoming ever more precious these days.

I feel like this is something that everyone has been saying for decades and I don't really know what it means in practice. There are countless businesses that are successful soaking up excess time that people happily participate in. The mobile gaming business for example is an industry worth tens of billions of dollars that simply didn't exist a couple decades ago.

>The only viable path forward for EVs is to reduce recharge time or make it invisible (do it outside rush hour). Until then I see no way for them to displace hybrids as primary family cars.

Hybrid market share has likely already peaked and they never became the primary family car for Americans. Hybrid's share of new cars only ever topped 3% once and that was in 2013. Plus charge time has already been decreasing for EVs and Teslas have gotten to the point that an average American would probably only need to charge for 10-20 minutes once a week at one of their highest powered Superchargers. That really isn't the inconvenience that some people are making it out to be if there are other business at these charging locations that can keep people occupied.

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by zdragnar on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:08PM (#25874281)
Given property tax rates, charging times have to drop pretty drastically, and they'll need a massive increase in power supply to handle the 15-20 cars supercharging simultaneously.

Gas stations currently make very little to almost nothing actually selling gas (something like 5-25 cents a gallon last I had heard). Almost all of their income is from also acting as a convenience store for snacks and drinks. They need people in and out as quick as possible, not loitering around for half an hour.

Basically, if charging time dropped to the 5 minute range, sure. I would hate to have to use one, though, given how busy gas stations already are during the day around here.

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:45PM (#25874689)
Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by zdragnar on Friday January 22, 2021 @07:39PM (#25878289)
That is A battery. The thermal management, safety mechanisms and infrastructure are fundamentally different when you are doing a dozen or two EV's worth or batteries simultaneously. I am not convinced that is practical in a consumer setting, or - to go back to the original topic - as a solution for people who don't have private parking to charge at.

As is noted elsewhere in the thread, it isn't simply a battery problem.

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by randcraw on Friday January 22, 2021 @02:21PM (#25875157)
Intriguing. That would be a game changer. Of course, the next question is how soon before it can compete at the current battery's price point? If it ships in 2025 as the article suggests, it sounds like 2030 is likely the earliest it might widely replace today's batteries.
Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by trophycase on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:52PM (#25874770)
They'll have to change their business model. Half an hour is a very long time for an extremely captive audience. I'm very certain they can figure out a way to make money off of that.
Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by Pick-A-Hill2019 on Friday January 22, 2021 @04:53PM (#25876752)
I would like to take that vision of the future you mention and add to it the concept of vertically stacking the fast-charging cars two or three vehicles high to double/triple your customer density. When you picture it mentally you can begin to see the financials start to make sense. If the underground fuel tanks can be properly decontaminated and repurposed as storage for uhhm storage batteries you have maximised your revenue generating space.

Being able to supply the “Ooomph” to fast charge 6 or 10 cars with a 5 minute vehicle turn around ( a la Tesla’s fast chargers) but also triple stacked with cars (hydraulic ramps, customer disembarks and uses the time to pay or shop). Chuck in the ‘free' storage space for your ballasting batteries and I can see a great market for buying up old gas stations located in inner city areas - especially those that are currently car washes, vacant lots etc.

Re:Audi announces end of combustion A4, A6 and A8 models by bgorman on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:05PM (#25874253)
Gas stations in cities are being converted to apartment/condo complexes, not EV charging stations. The economics just don't allow wasting prime real estate on something like a EV charging station.