News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by klodolph on Monday January 18, 2021 @04:38AM (#25819977)
All the recipe books I own have accurate prep + cook times for an “ideal chef in ideal circumstances.” I don’t know why they wouldn’t. For any decent recipe book the recipes are made and tested many times in different variations. If you know that you are slower then just pad it out a bit. It shouldn’t be discouraging that professional & motivated amateur chefs are faster than you—just like it should not be discouraging that professional basketball players can score more points than you.

I can understand why cooking can be slow and painful for people new to the activity. However, if you want to get fast at cooking, it is not that hard to get fast. Knife skills, multitasking, and planning will make everything go much faster. If your knife skills are not great (say, takes you longer than about a minute to dice an onion) or you are tired from a long day of work and aren’t in the mood to move fast, prep will take a lot longer.

Just observing people do prep I think it’s fairly plain to see that tons of people are just damn slow at it, either because they don’t enjoy going fast or because their skills aren’t up to par. And there are plenty of cooking shows where the contestants are under strict time limits but must still do all their prep within the time limit. Cutthroat Kitchen usually has a 30 minute limit, including prep, and including acts of sabotage that increase the difficulty.

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by mbeex on Monday January 18, 2021 @06:10AM (#25820511)
> It shouldn’t be discouraging that professional & motivated amateur chefs are faster than you

I don't see, why cooking should be a competition for speed in the first place.

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by jdbernard on Monday January 18, 2021 @08:17AM (#25821480)
I don't think it's a competition mentality as much as a need to be able to plan the time it takes to prep and cook so that the food is ready when the family is hungry.

I like to cook, but I don't have tons of time to cook as a hobby. New recipes are worked into our regular meal times. If it takes me an hour longer than the estimated time to prep and cook, I've made everyone wait an extra hour, throwing off any other plans for the evening. That can be discouraging and lead to wondering "why did they say it only takes 20 minutes? Are they just guessing, or am I just a slow cook?" Hence this thread. :)

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by mbeex on Monday January 18, 2021 @09:40AM (#25822193)
I dont buy this, reading many of the comments here. I'm not a native speaker and not certain at this moment if the figure of "hamster wheel" exists in English. But "rat race" does, as well as "cog in the wheel". There is a certain underlying trait of self-optimizing anything, also visible in the HN articles title itself (fortunately not so much the content) as well as in many other articles of this kind, coming up here continously. And these optimization considerations are >95% limited to time, they are much closer to self-exploitation than anything else.

Cooking for the moment aside, consider lunch. I'm German (sadly, the country became closer to the US in this respect). But if you ever worked in France or Switzerland for example (not to talk about countries even further into the South), you will spot much a difference here - yet in time spent, but also in the opinion what is important at all. Cooking is the same - it is not all "hungry family" (I certainly agree, at times it is), these are more often than not rationalizations. When I am cooking, the kitchen full of people is the most satisfying situation. It doesn't matter really, how long it lasts. This is not lost time, on the contrary! Also not in the context of work, because it eventually produces energy (I don't mean the calories) also for this.

A final small example: I have an Italian espresso machine here in my offices kitchen. Producing an espresso or cappuccino requires to do all steps manually: grinding beans, evaluating the pressure on the analog gauge, provisioning the milk, making foam from it, etc. - time-consuming! But it is a micro ritual, making my head free enough for handling some of the kinds of small problems, appearing during work. I could also buy something 'modern' using pads, maybe some sort of remote control, even a robot serving the final result to me (are there such things?). I certainly will never do this.

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by klodolph on Monday January 18, 2021 @12:15PM (#25823942)
I will interject here—I’m one of the people who says that cooks who take 1 hour to cook a 20 minute recipe are slow. However, I don’t think that this is a problem of over-optimizing or self exploitation.

My wife and I both do a lot of cooking and it is a fun, shared activity where we can move fast or slow, and talk about things. We also spent some time learning—learning knife skills, learning new techniques for cooking, trying new cuisines or new recipes.

However, if you are chopping an onion and hold the knife wrong, hold the onion wrong, or make the wrong cuts, it is not only slower but it is also more dangerous. If your knife is dull, you push the knife harder, and that is more dangerous. If chopping an onion is safe, you can move faster. It is a simple skill to learn and everyone who cooks should learn it.

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by jdbernard on Tuesday January 19, 2021 @12:55AM (#25830473)
Lol, OK. I'm not worried about "wasted" time or "unproductive" time. I am sensitive to "young kids are hungry because dinner is an hour later than expected," or "we've got plans to visit grandparents and don't want to be out too late because they have school in the morning." Trying to pretend that there is never any time pressure in life is a bit naive, I think.
Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by mbeex on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @04:21PM (#25852156)
> never any time pressure in life is a bit naive

Missing the related point from the comment is... what? Deliberate?

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by mjevans on Monday January 18, 2021 @06:41AM (#25820733)
Cooking / recipe books should have a professional time and an 'amateur time'. The latter exists more as a worst case estimate for how long the first try at a dish by someone generally less skilled might take. That would give someone trying the dish for the first time a good idea how much time it takes, which can be important.
Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by klodolph on Monday January 18, 2021 @11:38AM (#25823488)
If a recipe has 20 minutes of prep, then everyone who is fast can do the prep in 20 minutes. But everyone who is slow will take a different amount of time, because anyone who is slow is slow for different reasons.
Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by cutemonster on Monday January 18, 2021 @03:59PM (#25826559)
The cooking book could show the 1, 90 and 99 and 99.9 percentile prep time?

(E.g 99.9 being 40 min would mean that 999 out of 1 000 people got it done faster than 40 min)

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by klodolph on Monday January 18, 2021 @05:39PM (#25827564)
Eh. I did a bunch of statistical modeling for cloud service SLIs/SLOs/SLAs. This approach is good for letting people do black-box modeling. It sounds like complete overkill for recipes.

A recipe is not a black box. Most recipes are short and can be written on a half page of paper. If it calls for two chopped onions and you know that it takes you an “eternity” to chop onions, then add two eternities to the cooking time.

And as long as you are spending two eternities chopping onions, why not spend 90 seconds watching a video on YouTube that explains how to do it correctly? For most people—if you are cooking regularly, and practicing good technique, you will naturally get faster over time. If, like many people, you are cooking for decades, then you will be slow for only a short time.

Re:Context switching costs more than we give it credit for by cutemonster on Tuesday January 19, 2021 @05:12PM (#25839605)
> It sounds like complete overkill for recipes.

I forgot an /s. 99.9 percentile would require doing each meal in the cooking book ... 1000 or 10 000 times by different people to get an accurate timing :)

> chopping onions, why not spend 90 seconds watching a video on YouTube that explains how to do it correctly?

That sounds like a good idea, could get back 1 000 x those two minutes, in a lifetime, and more yummy food and can impress others with the onion skills. (No /s here. I'll try to remember tomorrow, youtube.)