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Re:Why can't I write code inside my browser? by aaomidi on Friday January 15, 2021 @11:50AM (#25792889)
You probably should've held back.

This is the exact type of behavior thats unwelcoming in this industry.

You don't have to type to write programs. Many people don't. It's why applications that do visual programming have opened the way for AMAZING bursts of creativity.

Everyone should be able to communicate with a computer. The more people that are the more likely it is were going to make fascinating things.

Your elitism in programming is showing. And it's not welcome.

Re:Why can't I write code inside my browser? by axaxs on Friday January 15, 2021 @01:32PM (#25794305)
Absolutely not. I'm not sure why programming is the one field people make a joke of. It doesn't happen in any other field that I'm aware of. Hear me out.

Do you ever see ads for 'become a doctor in 6 weeks, land a job'? Or plumber? Or electrician? Or anything else? No, but you do for programming.

Do you ever see people whining that being a medical doctor is too hard and confusing, and demand that everyone should just have a handheld with webmd?

Programming as a field requires many years to really understand. And even when you understand, it's just some niche, not -everything-. Nobody knows everything. And that's not completely dissimilar from other trades/professions.

I'm not trying to gatekeep here. I encourage everyone to learn to program, -if- they take the time to learn. If they don't, they do not belong doing it as a profession for others. Just as people can toy around with wood in their garage, so long as they don't call themselves a professional carpenter. That's how you end up with glaring security and privacy problems that we read about nearly daily. Imagine if anyone could call themselves a doctor, and constantly read stories of people dying from horribly botched practices.

I think the only real solution here is for the profession to be certified somehow, as other countries do.

Re:Why can't I write code inside my browser? by aaomidi on Saturday January 16, 2021 @08:35PM (#25807235)
God I would hate to have this type of behavior as coworkers. I can't imagine what a "certification for programming" would even look like. Programming is a completely different field than others - it's exactly that type of difference that has made programming far more welcoming than others.

No one is denying that you're not going to be the best developer in a few days. But I welcome everyone learning the way they want to and how they want to, and for others in the industry helping them learn.

And for your example, I'd much rather hire someone who has worked in their garage with wood for a decade than someone who just got a certification to call themselves a professional carpenter right out of trade school.

And yes, you are literally trying to gatekeep because you're realizing the thing you've spent thousands of hours learning is actually not that difficult and is getting easier and easier every day.

Re:Why can't I write code inside my browser? by thangalin on Friday January 15, 2021 @01:38PM (#25794414)
Bret Victor's, "The Future of Programming" is illuminating. He walks through what "programming" means and how the concept of "programming" has shifted in little evolutionary leaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=167&v=8pTEmbeENF4

"There can be a lot of resistance to new ways of working that require you to unlearn what you've already learned and think in new ways. ... And there can even be outright hostility."

Programming Baduk used to involve expert systems. Now convolutional neural networks (CNNs) can hoist a computer to superhuman performance, even doing so without pre-programmed rules (see MuZero). We no longer "program" computers to play Go, chess, shogi, or even Atari games.

Some people have difficulty keeping code structures in their mind's eye. Here's a conceptual development environment for navigating code visually, ending with a dual text editor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3QqjhzhnAw

Is that programming?

What's the difference between _typing_ instructions into a computer to place a graphical user interface widget on a screen and _telling_ the computer you'd like to put a toroid on the screen? Computers can use CNNs to fill in knowledge gaps. Even though the computer wasn't told the colour, size, shading, material, or location of the toroid, it can still show us the ring.

Is telling a holodeck that you'd like to replay a scene from a novel a form of programming?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7dfsLfWJvc

Each evolutionary step in programming has given us more powerful ways to express ideas in ever terser forms. Few people code in binary anymore. Did Picard need to tell the computer where to put every chair, table, glass, and machine gun?

What is programming?