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Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by ignoramous on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:29AM (#25745950)
Facebook's is in an unenviable position: They tried to commoditize user-data to go after Google which back-fired. They tried long and hard to not be sole arbitrators for content moderation and were squarely blamed for it. They do take a stance to de-platform the most powerful person in the World but are now in the cross-hairs of every conservative as well. The left-wing obviously would like them regulated to oblivion... They have always been between a rock and a hard place post IPO.

Kind of gives perspective to how long Google (with Android, YouTube, Groups, GMail, GSuite, GCP) has managed to go relatively untarnished (as a brand) but Facebook couldn't.

Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by toyg on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:53AM (#25746151)
> Kind of gives perspective to how long Google [...] has managed to go relatively untarnished

I reckon that's because Google largely works on pull models: you ask for something and G gives it to you. Its services superficially appear like databases just sitting there, even if we know that's not the case.

FB and Twitter, on the other hand, largely work on push models: you log on and the app will give you stuff to look at, as well as notifying you incessantly. It easier to perceive the app's own agency and priorities.

In this sense, it explains why Google tends to get heat over Youtube: because it's closer to a push model, both with homepage and suggestions.

Also, Google services are largely useful to get stuff done, in a way FB and Twitter are not. That gives G a big pass.

Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by hertzrat on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:53PM (#25756437)
It’s impressive that they have been so successful with their mostly-pull model. It seems like a good long term strategy
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by inglor_cz on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @08:50AM (#25746808)
That is not the case of YouTube, though. YT pushes recommended videos on you.

There is an interesting speech by Zeynap Tufekci on this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFTWM7HV2UI

Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by toyg on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @10:03AM (#25747762)
> In this sense, it explains why Google tends to get heat over Youtube: because it's closer to a push model, both with homepage and suggestions.
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by XorNot on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:54AM (#25746162)
Google is Search. Facebook is The Feed.

However you frame it, Google are showing you things you want to see - it's an affirmative feed back mechanism.

Facebook at best do that. Frequently they show you things you don't care about. Also things you don't want. It's an adversarial feedback mechanism.

In this light it's not surprising Facebook has earned a lot more ire a lot more quickly - though not undeservedly either.

On some level this still feels like you can squarely pin it on "optimizing for engagement". I highly doubt Facebook would be earning the anger it currently does if The Feed has remained a simple linear timeline. They were functionally getting into editorializing when they went with the new thing.

Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by esja on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @09:42AM (#25747479)
Google Search is trending in the same direction and could easily end in the same place, with search results skewed to support (or suppress) particular narratives and ideological beliefs. Look at the "ML Fairness" debates and ask yourself whether their workforce will at some point decide that they have a moral obligation not to present the raw content of the internet for a given topic, but rather to elevate the "correct" content.
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by hertzrat on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:55PM (#25756456)
Facebook was a lot more pleasant to use before the feed went nuts. It was nice to log in and wonder what somebody was up to, then click the link to their profile to see what they had posted. It was a long time ago though
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by p1necone on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:18PM (#25756091)
Google absolutely could show me whatever maximizes "engagement" instead of what I want to see too. I wouldn't use Facebook if there wasn't something I wanted to see there (and there almost isn't now, I just use it for some groups, and messenger - the feed is useless now, but it hasn't always been).
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by hertzrat on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:56PM (#25756474)
Interesting observation. Just imagine if google search was more engagement driven. It’s pretty great that it is only so to a small degree (in the sense of figuring out what links people are most likely to have been searching for, which is sort of a case of that positive feedback loop in engagement systems)
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by XorNot on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:06PM (#25757960)
Honestly I'm not sure they could: unlike The Feed which is something you look at when you're bored, search results don't benefit much from the normal click maximizers - i.e. "What you read next will SHOCK you!" isn't a useful result when I'm searching "difference between lawnmower blades".

We're basically there already as far SEO spam goes, and Google goes to some efforts to try and minimize that because it's a bad search experience and drives people away.

Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by eloisius on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:52AM (#25746141)
It’s kind of like being hated by everyone on all sides might mean you’re an asshole or something.
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by tmoravec on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @08:23AM (#25746456)
Facebook still has something like two billion of mostly happy users.
Re:Facebook to staff: Avoid company-branded clothing for own... by Mountain_Skies on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @09:38PM (#25757297)
Being locked-in isn't the same thing as being happy.