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Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by officemonkey on Sunday May 22, 2011 @03:54PM (#2574067)
German may be easy to "pick up" because of all the cognates, but I've found that the German grammer is both complex and not very "English".

French, on the other hand, has significant vocabulary overlap with English and it's grammar rules are either easier to learn, or easy to fudge when speaking.

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by StavrosK on Sunday May 22, 2011 @04:59PM (#2574207)
As a speaker of both English and German, and a dabbler in the other Romantic languages, I find German impossible to learn. I've taken years of classes and am still no good at it.

Its grammar is really close to ancient Greek, but that makes learning it no easier. Greek has three genders also, but you can usually tell the gender from the noun's suffix. In German, you have to learn the article with the word. It is one of the hardest languages I've met.

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by darklajid on Sunday May 22, 2011 @06:43PM (#2574460)
The Awful German Language - Mark Twain [1]

I love that essay - and he agrees with you on the gender issue:

---

To continue with the German genders: a tree is male, its buds are female, its leaves are neuter; horses are sexless, dogs are male, cats are female -- tomcats included, of course; a person's mouth, neck, bosom, elbows, fingers, nails, feet, and body are of the male sex, and his head is male or neuter according to the word selected to signify it, and not according to the sex of the individual who wears it -- for in Germany all the women either male heads or sexless ones; a person's nose, lips, shoulders, breast, hands, and toes are of the female sex; and his hair, ears, eyes, chin, legs, knees, heart, and conscience haven't any sex at all. The inventor of the language probably got what he knew about a conscience from hearsay.

Now, by the above dissection, the reader will see that in Germany a man may think he is a man, but when he comes to look into the matter closely, he is bound to have his doubts; he finds that in sober truth he is a most ridiculous mixture; and if he ends by trying to comfort himself with the thought that he can at least depend on a third of this mess as being manly and masculine, the humiliating second thought will quickly remind him that in this respect he is no better off than any woman or cow in the land.

---

1: http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html (First hit I found on Google. You might find "better" versions)

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by StavrosK on Sunday May 22, 2011 @06:56PM (#2574497)
Ah, I've read this before, it's delightful, but I go one further. I don't actually mind the detached genders (Greek has them, the door is a she, the table is an it, the bench is a he), as long as you can guess it from the word itself somehow (in Greek, gender is determined by the word's suffix, the girl is still neuter but you can tell even if you've never seen the word before).

In German, you basically have to learn an extra bit of information for every word.

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by darklajid on Sunday May 22, 2011 @07:05PM (#2574519)
Ah, right. Yes, it's just arbitrary and completely disconnected from the words as far as I can tell.

In fact, we tend to argue about the gender of things here regularly. One well-known (and mocked) example is a very popular local hazelnut cream. People actually discuss if the brand name should be considered female or of no gender at all (not sure if anyone wants to claim that it should be male).

Since there's no real logic behind all these rules it's fair game to argue about it..

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by eru on Monday May 23, 2011 @10:55AM (#2576106)
Are you talking about Nutella? Shockingly, that's actual Italian, and not local to Germany.
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by kahawe on Monday May 23, 2011 @09:24AM (#2575818)
It varies by region and dialect, also - very popular example is the soda pop "Cola".

In Austria Cola is neuter "it", in Germany it is female, which for me as a native speaker from Austria always "feels" like they are referring to the can (which is female in Germany and Austria).

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by officemonkey on Sunday May 22, 2011 @07:01PM (#2574504)
It's more than a bit:

0 = der

1 = die

10 = das

Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by StavrosK on Monday May 23, 2011 @04:02AM (#2575284)
"A bit" = "some". I know that 3 > 2.
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by officemonkey on Monday May 23, 2011 @07:15AM (#2575587)
I'm sorry, I thought you were speaking technically. "An extra bit of information" could easily be mistaken for a computer term.
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by StavrosK on Monday May 23, 2011 @07:20AM (#2575597)
I guess it is, but I thought people would realise that I don't think that a bit has three states :P
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by officemonkey on Tuesday May 24, 2011 @06:50AM (#2579364)
I knew you knew German had three genders, I just thought other people didn't know.
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by StavrosK on Tuesday May 24, 2011 @07:01AM (#2579390)
Oh, true. Good catch, thanks!
Re:London Is Gonna Be Pissed, But We Prefer Berlin for Startups by mgkimsal on Sunday May 22, 2011 @10:31PM (#2574816)
re: genders - I learned the hard way that "pollo" and "polla" have completely different meanings in Spain when I ordered a chicken sandwich.