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Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by johndevor on Sunday January 10, 2021 @08:16PM (#25722882)
> Freedom of speech has nothing to do with newspapers or news, and never has done.

If somebody speaks in the woods, and there's nobody there to hear it, do they make a sound?

Yes, they technically have free speech, but in reality not really.

The purpose of speech is that you might persuade somebody else. If there's nobody to talk to, you might as well not speak at all.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by nobody9999 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:54PM (#25724699)
Facebook, Twitter, et al are not public squares.

You can speak all you want in public spaces, on your own property (whether that be your home, your blog or your mastodon instance) mostly without limit.

But Facebook, Twitter, Google, HN or any other private organization is under no obligation to host or amplify your speech.

The government can't censor you and you may speak your mind in public spaces. You may also do so in private spaces, with the permission of the owners of those spaces.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that certain private actors are required to allow your speech. That's not true. They are responsible only to their shareholders and to a lesser extent, their customers -- and in this case their customers are advertisers and not you. You are the product being sold.

If you don't think that's right or fair, then don't interact with those private actors. If enough people chose not to deal with them, they would lose their power and influence.

I voted with my feet years ago. If you haven't, then you're part of the problem and not the solution.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by oceanplexian on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:42AM (#25725913)
> Facebook, Twitter, et al are not public squares. You can speak all you want in public spaces, on your own property (whether that be your home, your blog or your mastodon instance) mostly without limit.

I can't find it at the moment but there was recently a court case where a judge ruled that the constitutional right to Assembly was not infringed by pandemic restrictions (It is illegal in several US jurisdictions to assemble with more than N people in a private space) because people could freely assemble on online platforms like Facebook and Twitter. If the digital public square does not allow for free assembly, and the government forbids you from assembling in a physical public space, then it seems plausible to me that we have constructively eliminated certain constitutional rights.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by gfodor on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:09AM (#25725236)
Claiming they are not public squares is correct and says very little.

When capitalism revealed its ability to create abusive monopolies, we created new laws to mitigate those harms.

When the whole worlds discourse flows through a few centralized social media companies, as a society we are free to imagine new legal concepts and regulations to deal with the unforeseeable consequences of these new phenomena.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by nobody9999 on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:26AM (#25725371)
>When the whole worlds discourse flows through a few centralized social media companies, as a society we are free to imagine new legal concepts and regulations to deal with the unforeseeable consequences of these new phenomena.

Where did I say that wasn't appropriate?

I strongly believe that those big social media companies not only have too much power and influence, but that their business models are exploitative and morally repugnant.

Which is why I don't use them. At all.

In fact, I detailed[0] how I thought this issue should be dealt with the other day.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25688032

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by gfodor on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:46PM (#25732652)
We are in 100% agreement. I apologize for misunderstanding your comment.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by save_ferris on Sunday January 10, 2021 @10:34PM (#25724093)
Freedom of speech as laid out in the 1st amendment protects individuals from being arrested or censored by the government for speech. It does not protect individuals who violate the TOS of a private company, nor does it provide blanket protection in all cases of speech. Inciting violence and making false statements of fact are not protected forms of speech under US law[0]

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_Unite...

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by jude- on Sunday January 10, 2021 @09:24PM (#25723540)
Freedom of speech does not entitle to you an audience or distribution network. It never has.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by yibg on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:24PM (#25724490)
You don't have an inherent right to a megaphone. Freedom of speech means you don't get in trouble from the government for saying things, not that you have the right to broadcast your message.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by johndevor on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:45AM (#25725075)
If you can't broadcast, what good is your message?
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by jusssi on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:05AM (#25726471)
If you can't broadcast, how good is your message?

If you can't convince enough people that your message is worth propagating, maybe it isn't. If you can, you will have the means.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by yurielt on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:56AM (#25727764)
If you can you will have the means? Lmao sounds like you believe popular support is an indicator of correctness and that is very very wrong you should read about Galileo pal
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by jusssi on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:18AM (#25728481)
Lmao, pal to you too. Galileo succeeded, we heard his theory and eventually found it more correct than the previous one. And he managed that without Twitter, Youtube or Parler.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by yurielt on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:01PM (#25736861)
Yeah but the suffering that had to take place in order for that to happen was erroneous we should strive to avoid that and not licking Bezzos and ZUckerberg boots is part of a society where Galileos have to avoid trials
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by jusssi on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:50AM (#25743302)
So you go on about Lmao pals and licking boots. What it is that you actually propose? That someone who has a publishing platform, they're forced to propagate your message, no matter what it is? And if they refuse? Fines? Jailtime? Pitchforks, torches, white hoods, noose?