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Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by mlac on Friday January 08, 2021 @11:35PM (#25697054)
This is something I've had an issue with for a while. It's not a great move to assume that conservatives are dumb.

There are plenty of brilliant people who hold conservative values. Their idea of "success" may not follow the path of others who have moved from their hometown to a coast working in IT. Or the path of those who were "enlightened" with advanced degrees where the sophisticated choice is obviously to be a democrat. It's different strokes for different folks, and there are many ways to live in the United States.

A vote for Trump isn't necessarily a vote for Trump - It can be a vote for "Not Democrat." Whether or not you believe that voting "Not Democrat" is appropriate, it's a far reach to say that all, or most, of those people, are idiots with racist views. This approach discounts legitimate differences that should be open to debate and should be discussed. We can't expect the United States to last or be successful if we assume everyone in the middle of the country is an uncultured idiot who should be censored. Or assume that those who don't share the same views must be racists who just can't be reasoned with.

If Democrats somehow lost control of the primary to a less ideal celebrity candidate (and this is possible: https://www.london.edu/think/why-most-elections-are-ineffici...), there would be many democrats who choose to vote for that person because it is "Not Republican." It wouldn't matter who is on the ticket as long as it is "Not Republican" because a republican choice would be dumb, racist, and unsophisticated.

I grew up in the rust belt, I've lived in the most diverse city in the country (Houston, TX), and I've lived in Cambridge, MA. People are largely the same all over the country - they care about being left alone with the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. How they define those things differs (e.g., is a fetus "alive"?), but as long as people have those rights protected, then it's all good.

But we need laws where these rights come into conflict: if someone's pursuit of happiness involves owning slaves, this is in direct conflict with another's right to life and liberty. And they are ordered in importance - life > liberty > pursuit of happiness. So obviously, slavery should be outlawed. But other things aren't that clear. Federal legislation doesn't impact everyone evenly, and those who are impacted should have a voice. Assuming every "Not Democrat" (or "Not Republican" or "Not X") voice is a racist, dumb person who should be silenced or ignored is a fast path to division and the collapse of a functioning Democracy.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by inpdx on Saturday January 09, 2021 @01:26AM (#25697964)
Conservatives are in no way synonymous with Trump Republicans. Many of the stalwarts of conservatism have not just disavowed Trumpism, but have worked actively against it. Much of the discussion in modern (Trump) Republican circles would be unrecognizable to self-identified conservatives of 20, 30, 40 years ago.
Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by mlac on Saturday January 09, 2021 @10:45AM (#25701281)
I think we're in agreement here. Maybe it would have been better to say "republicans" than conservatives. But the point stands that not all Trump voters are Trump supporters that OP identified as racists with below-average intelligence. They may just be voting "not-democrat" on a ticket with two sub-optimal choices.
Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by geedy on Saturday January 09, 2021 @12:31AM (#25697565)
> It's not a great move to assume that conservatives are dumb, racist, and unsophisticated.

I don't love labels, but I don't think "conservatives" are simply any of those things.

This isn't an original thought, but I think they are mostly afraid of losing their community if they change their mind.

Fear of disconnection is innate and biological. When my trump supporting friends say "I believe it" to somebody suggesting that the Capitol Hill rioters were antifa pretending to be trump supporters, their lack of interest in challenging their own beliefs stems from the risk incurred with disagreeing with their friends and loved ones.

This effect is so strong that our brains give hits of dopamine whenever our beliefs are confirmed. We are not weird to change our minds.

So no. "Conservatives" aren't dumb. Just like the rest of us, they biologically afraid of social disconnection. And all that shouting across the isle makes it harder for them to see "progressives" accepting them.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by rsyring on Saturday January 09, 2021 @01:14AM (#25697880)
I'm a conservative and it has zero to do with identifying with a certain community or concern about being rejected by them.

Republican candidates are more likely to vote on issues I care about in a way that aligns with my values. That alignment is far from perfect, but it's a lot better than it would be with a Democrat, especially a progressive Democrat.

That's why I typically vote Republican, sometimes begrudgingly. Has nothing to do with belonging to a community. In fact, the communities I am a part of rarely discuss politics. We discuss values that inform our politics, but the politics themselves are secondary.

I have absolutely no fear of social disconnection due to my political views. If I was to suddenly start voting democratic, no one in my closest circles would even need to know.

And I care nothing about whether progressives accept me. I simply have very different values and don't believe where they want our culture and country to move is healthy. So, I don't support them in elections. How they feel about me is irrelevant.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by kjakm on Saturday January 09, 2021 @04:17AM (#25698845)
You may not want to share this but I’ll ask anyway because I’m quite interested:

1. What are important issues for you that republicans vote the right way on?

2. What are the top issues for you that republicans vote the wrong way on?

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by mlac on Saturday January 09, 2021 @11:31AM (#25701710)
Take the bathroom ban in North Carolina. It got polarized into a trans/non-trans fight, where all people who supported separate gender bathrooms were dumb, transphobic people. The polarization marginalizes a legitimate argument:

Women should not have to walk into a rest stop restroom at night during a road trip, see a man, and then think about whether or not he should be there. And a man should not have the right to be there because he "identifies" as a woman when he really doesn't and is just a pervert in a rest stop bathroom. But with a new law, it then has to go through the court to prove whether he had the right to be there. The damage is done way before that day shows up.

The polarization and simplification meant that democrats couldn't vote against this because it became associated with transphobia. A vote to keep separate bathrooms would mean being canceled and losing their seat. The republicans were villainized, but they have a fairly decent point. Obviously, no one should feel uncomfortable using the restroom, but what unintended consequences come with the law? You can say perverts in bathrooms is an edge case, but I'd argue a trans person being denied a restroom is also an edge case.

Starbucks arguably came up with the best answer with gender-indifferent restrooms that are single occupancy, but this isn't always scalable. There are single occupancy family restrooms in many places, so if someone truly feels unsafe to use a restroom, they could use those. These were options that were put into place without laws.

It's not "right or wrong" or "black and white" on nearly any issue we face today. It's complex, and federal laws, given they impact 330 million Americans, have more unintended consequences than laws enacted at the local or state level. And that's what the republican, conservative party wants - less "big laws" with fewer unintended consequences in favor of state laws that allow people to govern themselves at the local level. It's also why any vote to undermine a State's right to certify its election results flies in the face of conservatism.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by chub500 on Saturday January 09, 2021 @09:09AM (#25700487)
I'm not the OP but I know several voters who seem to match the OP's sentiment:

1. Abortion is simply the legally sanctioned killing of helpless human beings. I know _many_ single issue voters who begrudgingly voted for trump because of this.

2. Climate change denialism is pretty much anti common sense. Anyone who completely ignores the issue stinks of corruption.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by mlac on Saturday January 09, 2021 @10:55AM (#25701356)
Many complex topics with a lot of gray areas are often framed in soundbites that are extreme - you're either pro-life or pro-choice. You're either pro-Trump or anti-Trump.

A person can be a staunch supporter of women's rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness but draw the line at a woman's right to end another's life. The "all-or-nothing" approach pushes people into one of two camps that each holds extreme opposing views, and it's happening across the different issues we face today.

Re:Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store by mlac on Saturday January 09, 2021 @11:02AM (#25701426)
Votes in a functioning democratic society are anonymous. You can vote one way and tell folks you voted another to "fit in".

But people become who they hang around. So if they are in a vacuum and they only hear that the election was stolen, anything else is fake news, and the president is telling them this, they may seriously believe that democracy is under siege.

Amp it up with technology echo chambers and reinforcing behaviors and you wind up with extreme situations where a group of people storms the capitol.

It's when people don't believe they can end up with similarly distorted views on a topic that they are susceptible to this themselves. This is along the lines of the Lucifer Effect.