The fact that a woman was shot by police in last night's protest is a tragedy, as all human life is precious. But a democracy can't bow down to mob rule for fear of violence. The protesters should have never even been allowed to get near the Capitol building while Congress was in session, and in that case perhaps this loss of life could have also been avoided.
Police brutality and the police culture of violence before other solutions is also something that has been discussed in leftist circles the entire year. It is a culture that must be changed, which will surely be a monumental task, if it even is attempted. Still, the alternative is not simply allowing mobs to attack federal institutions with impunity.
We need to be clear, she was shot while trying to force her way through a barricaded door when law enforcement was trying to safely get elected officials and other innocent people out of harm's way, and she was only shot after multiple warnings.
I fully agree that the terrorists shouldn't have been allowed into the building, but it happened, and given that, if this isn't a textbook example of a situation where law enforcement was justified in using lethal force, I'm not sure what is.
.. have they bothered taking down their "blue lives matter" decorations first?
There is no reasonable justification for the police to execute an unarmed protestor simply for trespassing in a political building.
I suspect that you (like many others) have just become normalized to such police brutality, to think this is acceptable.
Not to mention, the largest difference is that during the BLM protests you saw daily police brutality against the protesters from day one, with tear gas, rubber bullets, etc. You did NOT see police taking selfies on the steps of the buildings they were supposed to keep the protesters out of.
I think if you compare a single event with a large number of different events, you’ll find examples where one is worse by some measure and others where one is better. I don’t really want to comment on the recent events or the validity of the argument (or it’s spirit), but I think it probably isn’t reasonable to compare a single event with the aggregate of many different events.
Even if the people defending the Red House did call it an autonomous zone, their only real demands were to protect the livelihood of one family. They did not seek to expand, they did not try to gain political power from it,they did nothing that I would actually view as a significant attempt to challenge the authority of the state beyond a very specific case.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone
I fail to see how this can be presented as comparable in gravity with people attacking the Capitol building with the intent of overturning the result of the federal election.
But there is a difference between demanding social change and demanding to take down a politician or to overturn an election.
>(except for police),
I rest my case.
And it's not just the fact that the police allowed it to happen or that the military was not asked to intervene until way too late.
It's also the alarmingly not-alarmed media response. What happened to "thugs" or "rioters" or "enemy combatants"?
Correct me if I'm wrong but a dozen or so cops standing down in front of hundreds of protestors != compliance.
> The protesters should have never even been allowed to get near the Capitol building while Congress was in session
That's absolutely right.
And yes, the American flag is problematic in its own way.
He said "how about this symbolism!" and talked about a piece of cloth. I'm now asking what an unarmed woman with blood pooling out of her head symbolizes. If it helps you answer the question at all, she was also a US military veteran with four tours of service.
If you had asked any American a week ago about what they think is a reasonable reaction for an officer faced with people trying to surpass a barricade, that has been set up for security reasons inside a government building to protect the people inside, after said building has been trespassed by a crowd breaking through the windows, I don't think "shooting" would have been unexpected.As some people pointed out half jokingly, "you can't even try that in GTA".
I don't see the relevance of mentioning that woman's connection to the military either, other than emphasising that she should have known better.
In opposition, I think the flag that symbolises the right of people to own slaves, being flown without consequence in the meeting place of congress while the officers stand around and take selfies with the mob, sends a clear message to the descendants of slaves about how much can they expect to be protected and represented by that democracy. Even more so in a climate where they have been violently repressed for protesting inequality.
Today's "Confederate flag" is literally a rebel battle flag from a horrifying civil war.
The fact that said civil war was instigated by the rebels specifically to protect the institution of slavery is just bonus.
It is a very powerful symbol. Anyone who claims it's about Southern heritage is being deliberately ignorant. It's blatantly oppositional, self-serving, and violent.
I really don't understand how this is relevant to flying that flag which represents much intentional suffering, to which the above poster objected.
George Floyd was murdered by police during a routine arrest.
Ashli Babbitt was executed by police for trespassing during a protest.
Both of these (and many others) are powerfully symbolic: of an overbearing and largely unaccountable police state, in which its enforcers use violence as a first resort.
The military veteran - gathering with like minded people who thought they were sent there to make a coup and storm the capitole and one of them was carrying colsons so who knows what else they planned to do - try to get further in the capitole, with the support of a mob behind her singing threats, to wreak havoc.
How you think your attempt to fabricate an alternative reality on HN is going to fly is beyond me.
> Were BLM grievances not rooted in an equitable respect for the sanctity of life and an earnest desire for peaceful coexistence?
GF was slowly put to death. Ashli Babbit broke through a doorglass after breaking into the capitole with people who had previously brought the flag down and claimed to overturn a democratic election. I don't see this act as a sign of wanting a peaceful coexistence.
I’m sure there is a program (or several) to help our vets adjust to civilian life but it needs to be updated to help build community so they aren’t as likely to get sucked into Qanon or similar cults like she did.
Separately, we need to continue to raise our expectations of police ability to de-escalate situations. This is one of many, many unarmed civilians killed by police in recent years. Normally they aren’t storming the capitol, but it should still be possible for police / secret service to de-escalate a situation like this. It won’t happen until our DAs and various state attorneys start charging cops that kill.
While climbing through a window that had the glass smashed out she was shot. Shooting an intruder is like the most protected type of self defense there is, so it’s to be expected when breaking into any building, no? So what happened to make her think this wouldn’t get her killed?
That doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy, even more so. Someone that served honorably shouldn’t be left alone to get sucked into all of this.
That said, in the video I can’t hear anyone issue a verbal command such as “Get back or we’ll shoot!” or anything like that. There should have been de-escalation at this point IMO. There were other ways to deal with this aside from shooting her.
(This is a problem with probably every law enforcement agency in the country, a very recent public example is the Breonna Taylor case where police chose one of the most dangerous possible ways to serve a warrant and created a deadly situation where there was none before)
Reminder that the rules of engagement for the US army are way more rigorous than those of the police forces and engagements are scrutinized more thoroughly. There should have been warnings until there was no other way to keep the protesters out of the perimeter.
Now that I think about that woman's profile: could it be that this veteran, because of her training, was expecting to hear warnings, didn't and so thought it was safe to keep moving forward ? We'll never know. I have seen the scene and there are other elements I can't explain. We'll never know the whole truth.
It's so sad that people who served their country for years get swallowed in this.
For many people, the damage that causes to government feeling "theirs" is much, much higher than a violent incident, even more so if we compare it to the way recent protests have been handled.