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Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by eloff on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:26PM (#25634665)
More like digital gold. Calling it a currency is really not an apt description.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by cubano on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:56PM (#25635210)
BTC has already been legally ruled as property, not currency, I believe if I read the ruling correctly.

Not digital gold, but pharmaceutical grade gold as Saylor put it in a recent Odd Lots pod, and it's hard to argue that...also quoted from the same pod..[not a perfect transcript]

"...so that took us to cryptos and we looked at 6500 cryptos and we found that BTC is the dominant network. its 25x bigger than the next closest thing that looks like it, and has more than $200bil monetary energy in it. it is basically Facebook or Google for money.

and this is the nuance that most people haven't realized yet..what you have is a dominant digital network that has been engineered to host a safe haven treasury reserve asset superior to gold in all respects.

it's pharmaceutical grade gold [love this line]. if God [blurb] gold as a treasury reserve asset to hold for 100 years, he would create 21mil gold coins, he'd make it impossible to make any more, he would make it possible to audit it from anywhere on earth from any node every 10 minutes, make it unhackable and make it an open architecture where you could build it into an iphone or into Square or paypal or any other exchange without permission, and he would distribute it everywhere on earth with these crypto SHA256 miners so hat no company controls it, no CEO controls it, no country controls it, and no regulators control it..."[0]

[0] https://play.acast.com/s/oddlots/6b8b72d0-455c-11eb-b9ed-377...

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by ordinaryradical on Monday January 04, 2021 @01:26PM (#25635701)
But given the dynamics of PoW mining, isn't bitcoin defacto controlled by a handful of Chinese mining cartels, which are themselves controlled by the CCP?

I feel like this whole pitch makes sense until you get to that part.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by eloff on Tuesday January 05, 2021 @09:13AM (#25645658)
Yeah, the distributed part failed because of economies of scale and how they apply to the miners.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by cubano on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:18PM (#25636463)
So in a way...who cares who mines it?

Do you care who owns your real estate before you buy it? Or who mines your gold before you wear it? Probably not.

Yes I suppose there is some political aspect to that side of it, but the crypto itself...it's about as apolitical as it gets.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by marcosdumay on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:14PM (#25637229)
> who cares who mines it?

Cryptocoins are subject to majority attacks and rules that can change at any time based on the miners preference. Who mines it is very important.

You would also care about who owned some real estate before you buy it if it was some company known for dumping toxic wast into land and then selling it. Those things are not as apolitical as they look like in an organized society.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by cubano on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:00PM (#25637927)
Your straw-man argument hardly settles our debate.

If I decided that I could profitably use toxic-waste laden land, then yes of course I would still buy it and, yes of course, still not care because that's what due diligence is about.

Your liquor store sells alcohol that kills more people under the age of 30 than any other way...why aren't you standing in front of it demanding it shut down?

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by arcticbull on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:23PM (#25638274)
It's not about who created the coins, obviously. It's about the fact that more than 65% of the hashpower securing the network is in the hands of a small group of mining pools in the PRC. Adopting BTC is de facto handing over sovereignty of your currency to the PRC [1].

They get to censor transactions, they get to decide what makes it and what doesn't, they get to double-spend if they want to. That's how authoritarian government works.

This is a natural consequence of the proof-of-waste system employed. The hashpower goes to the place where waste would be the cheapest, and that's China.

[1] https://news.bitcoin.com/65-of-global-bitcoin-hashrate-conce...

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by sireat on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:18PM (#25637269)
Crypto can be extremely political if those who mine get to decide what goes on the blockchain.

Let's say Dalai Lama decided to follow MicroStrategy with a 400M purchase.

His BTC could be near unusable if China were to control some amount over 50% of mining capability.

How could that happen? The blocks you mine you simply not process any of "undesirable transactions".

If any of the lesser miners find a block and try to add a transaction to the ledger you perform a double spend attack.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by qw3rty01 on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:59PM (#25637004)
> make it unhackable

This hinges entirely on control of mining, in fact you could argue who mines it is one of the most important questions to ask.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by squeaky-clean on Monday January 04, 2021 @01:10PM (#25635434)
The first sentence of the bitcoin whitepaper is literally "A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution."
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by chillacy on Monday January 04, 2021 @01:54PM (#25636118)
I think it's safe to say that the BTC community has pivoted to a more fitting use case for their technology.

The Bitcoin Cash fork and Litecoin made scaling choices that make it better for payments.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by eloff on Tuesday January 05, 2021 @09:15AM (#25645686)
It doesn't matter what it was marketed as. It matters what it is.

But they made it deflationary and a good currency needs to be inflationary otherwise you just hold onto it instead of spending it. Which had made it more like a digital gold.

It has totally failed as a system for payments for this and other reasons. It is also too slow and too expensive per transaction.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by EpicEng on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:04PM (#25636259)
And if they said it were a unicorn, would that make it true? It's not a currency because you can't use it as a currency.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by minitoar on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:37PM (#25634887)
Unfortunate they called it a 'coin' then. Maybe it should've been Bitgold. Digimetal.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by thinkmassive on Monday January 04, 2021 @01:13PM (#25635477)
The name Bit Gold was already recently used for a similar project by Nick Szabo when Bitcoin was announced: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bit-gold/

Contrary to what many people who only recently discovered Bitcoin probably believe, it was not created in a vacuum as some Ponzi scheme. Instead it was a concept that had been iterated on for decades until Satoshi discovered the right combination of cryptographic technologies and economic incentives to make a so-far-unstoppable decentralized digital currency.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by arcticbull on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:27PM (#25636586)
Well, Satoshi was more than likely Paul Calder Le Roux who wanted a way to launder the proceeds of his crime network.

> Instead it was a concept that had been iterated on for decades until Satoshi discovered the right combination of cryptographic technologies and economic incentives to make a so-far-unstoppable decentralized digital currency.

You know how that sounds right? Like religion, not clear-headed thinking.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by thinkmassive on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:10PM (#25638106)
I expect Bitcoin to affect monetary systems in a way similar to how FOSS changed software.

My opinion is neither of those is a religion. The development of Bitcoin in particular sounds more like following the scientific method to me, but you're entitled to your own interpretation.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by kylebenzle on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:37PM (#25634898)
It says in the title of the paper, Digital CASH. But, ever since Blockstream (Adam Back and Greg Maxwell) hijacked the GitHub repo years ago Bitcoin (BTC) has purposefully failed at this central use case. However, the project and White Paper live on in projects like Monero, Bitcoin Cash and Ethereum.