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Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by stetrain on Monday January 04, 2021 @11:17AM (#25633303)
At the end of the day it is being traded and speculated on like any normal asset though.

The people buying bitcoin as an investment don't need to care about the asset or secure network, in fact bitcoin's technical details have actually created negatives when exchanges/vaults/services break and assets are lost.

To most buyers it's just like buying and selling stocks, currency, gold, oil futures, whatever.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by pontifier on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:06PM (#25634233)
Exactly! The biggest arguments I have around Bitcoin are

1: Even if you can treat it like an asset, it's an unproductive one.

2: It's too easy to have some sort of problem and lose it.

At the end of the day, I see the long term value of BTC going to zero.

I feel lucky to have had some at one point, just to have that experience. One day, I saw that Bitcoin sitting in my wallet, and realised I didn't really care anymore. It didn't solve any problems I was having, and I couldn't do anything with it other than look at the balance or send it somewhere.

I'd rather have my future wealth come from value I create, than some asset I happen to hold.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by cinntaile on Monday January 04, 2021 @01:30PM (#25635766)
Regarding your last sentence. Trading your time for money will take a long time to build wealth. Wealth is usually created by holding assets.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by mlady on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:55PM (#25636951)
"I'd rather have my future wealth come from value I create"

He doesn't say anything about trading time for money. If he creates value that scales, he can divorce his time from the money he makes.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by cinntaile on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:58PM (#25637885)
I'm having trouble coming up with an example. Can you give an example of value that scales but that isn't an asset he holds?
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by pontifier on Monday January 04, 2021 @08:31PM (#25640874)
I prefer assets that I create, or have an active role in such as patents, and businesses, and code.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by Siira on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:15PM (#25638167)
> I'd rather have my future wealth come from value I create, than some asset I happen to hold.

There is no dilemma here.

Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by hanniabu on Monday January 04, 2021 @11:52AM (#25633953)
If a tanker sinks, that means nothing about the value of oil. Similarly, when there's an exchange hack, that means nothing about the value or security of bitcoin. It just means they had poor security standards.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by washedup on Monday January 04, 2021 @11:53AM (#25633971)
I agree that most buyers are investing as a speculation; all investing is speculation. Bitcoin is a new type of asset that has properties never seen before. That is what my point is, that they new properties are being discounted heavily by the author as they try to force it into a traditional asset to make a shaky comparison.
Re:BadEconomics: Putting $400M of Bitcoin on your company ba... by stetrain on Monday January 04, 2021 @05:30PM (#25639182)
But are any of those new properties at all related to its value or why it is being traded? At the end of the chain of speculation, eventually oil gets sold to a customer who wants to burn it and real estate gets sold to someone who wants to live there. If they didn't, those markets would collapse (and housing has done just that in the past).

I do agree that bitcoin (well, blockchain in general) has useful properties for certain types of transactions or record keeping.

But I think the points of the article stand. If a currency isn't useful to buy things, or is subject to wild value swings due to speculation, then it isn't a great currency. If an asset doesn't have any real value to any customers, then it's not a great asset. Bitcoin combines both of those into, a mediocre currency and a speculative asset?