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Re:My Experience at Apple by WatchDog on Friday January 01, 2021 @11:25PM (#25610376)
The personal/political aspect aside, I can think of multiple projects that could have benefited from an approach like this.

I'm often astonished by the inefficiency of project delivery, particularly in large companies.

Teams spending months building sub-systems from scratch, where there is an off the shelf(sometimes open source) tool that will do the same job and better.

Man years of work going into chasing trends like "serverless" or "microservices" for no real reason, when a monolith running on a server, could be delivered in a fraction of the time and probably do a better job than what ended up being built.

I'm convinced that paying two teams to work on the same project would often cost less than paying for the huge teams and cost overruns I've seen.

Re:My Experience at Apple by periya on Saturday January 02, 2021 @01:55AM (#25610970)
I disagree, such an approach completely desensitizes the human aspect of work and treats the people working as commodities that are expendable. Engineering is hard, teams might need to go through multiple iterations/generations to get the desired results. A better investment would be to develop the right engineering culture rather than Team A vs Team B duking it out.
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Re:My Experience at Apple by piva00 on Saturday January 02, 2021 @05:49PM (#25617368)
It only is that way because we make that way. There's no law in the Universe dictating that people are spendable, it's part of a system, a myth we created and live on.

Don't get too cocky against someone that has a more humane view of what's valuable to be human. Get a grip that reality has very many shades of grey.

Re:My Experience at Apple by mark-r on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:52AM (#25610747)
Interesting theory. If you pay 2 teams A and B to work on the same project, and B finishes in half the time it would have taken A, you really didn't spend anything extra did you?
Re:My Experience at Apple by outsomnia on Saturday January 02, 2021 @01:45AM (#25610935)
... until you find they finished first by cutting corners and delivering something that is only capable of passing the scant unit tests.

Then the "zero knowledge" psychopathic management style doesn't seem so smart.

Re:My Experience at Apple by roenxi on Saturday January 02, 2021 @03:39AM (#25611328)
It isn't a zero knowledge style. It is an experimental, or knowledge-acquiring style. To employ that approach most effectively it makes sense to have competing teams with purposefully different styles.
Re:My Experience at Apple by outsomnia on Saturday January 02, 2021 @02:02PM (#25615380)
> experimental, or knowledge-acquiring style

No knowledge is going to be acquired that way.

It's a manager who has decided understanding the nature of the work is beneath him, when he can deploy someone else's money to wind up some insects that will run around doing the work for him and watch them struggle against each other. Literally zero knowledge, before, during and after.

When whatever result appears they will not analyze the meaning of what happened beyond punishing some insects and rewarding others.

Re:My Experience at Apple by cutemonster on Saturday January 02, 2021 @12:39PM (#25614527)
> until you find they finished first by cutting corners and ...

Or until they accidentally burnt down the office building. You're right, doesn't seem so smart

Re:My Experience at Apple by joe_91 on Saturday January 02, 2021 @05:19AM (#25611733)
Why not just find the best people for the job who can understand the needs of the project they're working on and execute correctly?

Running two teams against each other just screams of waste/bad management in my opinion.

Re:My Experience at Apple by p0nce on Saturday January 02, 2021 @04:58AM (#25611612)
Suffering is the commodity engineers are providing.