For my context here, I went to a high school that was centered around progressive education principles and I never had to ask to go to the bathroom. There were no disciplinary policies like that. And in fact, everything was fine. We all still worked hard, paid attention, and got our diplomas. I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying as hard as they can to avoid school. Turns out, most adults will start to chafe too if you tell them they have to ask to go to the bathroom after the third time doing so in your presence, let alone if you make them ask every time. And some adults will even use bathroom breaks as an excuse to waste time.

So be it! That's life.

Your school sounds like the sort of place that would select for well behaved children whose parents had the ability and wherewithal to select a progressive school. I don't think policies like that work in schools filled to the brim with students who absolutely do not care about school in the slightest.

People who absolutely do not care about school and don’t want to be there are unlikely to attain much benefit from school. I think this is true no matter how much you try to force them to pay attention, punish them for skipping, leaving class regularly or simply daydreaming while ignoring the instructor. There just isn’t much use imposing the will of an authority on someone who has their own free will which isn’t aligned and doesn’t want to be dominated. In my opinion, success at that sort of endeavor should not be celebrated. A student should only be in school if they want to be there.

Perhaps, but the policies we do have in the US pretty clearly do not work either. Beyond that I think treating children in a humanist fashion is an ethical obligation we hold as adults, but this perspective is apparently quite radical.

>> I think too many teachers assume students are all malicious gremlins trying

It only takes a few to ruin it for everybody.

Look, I’m with you (although nothing can be “centered around” anything). But most schools are not organized that way, and there’s only so much one teacher can do to buck the system. As it was, I got fired from that particular job after two years, and it wasn’t because I was too strict, certainly.

>nothing can be “centered around” anything

Not quite sure what you're getting at here but insofar as progressive education was an explicit philosophy reflected in policies and actions, it was centered.

>But most schools are not organized that way, and there’s only so much one teacher can do to buck the system. As it was, I got fired from that particular job after two years, and it wasn’t because I was too strict, certainly.

No disagreement there, and I'm sorry to hear you got fired. I'm sure your students appreciated you doing your part to make things less shitty.

It was “centered on” those things, not “around”.

Ah! Perhaps if my English teacher had been more of a hardcore disciplinarian...

I'm not going to assume anything because it may have just been what you told the children, but if you actually sent notes to the nurse without talking to a kid beforehand, you're definitely overstepping.

It's perfectly normal for bowel movements to be on a schedule. If a student it leaving your class multiple time per week then have a discussion to see what's going on, you might learn something about their life that paints them in a new light. Or, maybe discuss the possibility of going before class starts if possible.

I think people are downvoting your original comment because referring a student directly to the nurse is a strange thing to threaten upfront.

I did in fact talk to them beforehand, and only sent two notes in two years.