The big question is can they since Xi has come to power? imo Xi is regressing China back to Mao style centralization. Centralization has big costs such as severely stunting creativity.

This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years.

In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall. Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you.

China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else.

> This is the kind of stuff people post who get their information about China exclusively from American think tanks. I've worked in China and been in the country multiple times over the last few years.

I'm Chinese. I still have family there.

> In Mao's times you had to carry the little red book in your pocket, were put into a factory or lined up against the wall.

This is funny because Xi is emulating Mao. Instead of a red book, Xi has a yellow book.

> Today foreigners can go to the country, start a business and you can work where you want. Over the last five years in particular the situation for businesses has gotten better because the courts actually have started to function and address stuff like IP claims. Still slow for foreign business in particular, but if you think modern China, one of the world's most integrated economies, is comparable to the Mao era I truly don't know what to tell you.

If you know enough about history, the credit for opening up China to the West goes to Deng Xiaoping and not Xi. Also you're talking past tense. In the present, foreigners are being squeezed out.

> China is also, ironically enough, probably one of the most fiscally decentralized economies on the planet. If you look at the degree of economic autonomy regions have, you won't find it really anywhere else.

I'm not sure what you're reading, but a good percentage of companies are either state sponsored or state owned. Still, you weren't completely off. Continued decentralization of the economy was the trend before Xi, but Xi is reversing it now. I'm speaking of the near future and not the past.

What you've written was largely true a few years ago but not so much now or the near future.

I don't really see any evidence for the fact that foreigners are being squeezed out of China. FDI in China is actually up, even American investment in China.[1] under the current administration no less. Number of foreign students in China has steadily risen, and only slowed somewhat down but it's still the fifth most popular country for foreign students[2]. I personally plan to return in the next few years in all likelihood. (I don't have family in the country, and I'm not Chinese for what it's worth, and I rarely had problems).

I see absolutely no evidence in the numbers, or personal experience, but only in narrative that China has become a worse place for foreigners. Business climate is way better than it was mostly due to rule of law improvements. I have no idea to what extent the corruption reforms purged antagonistic party members or whatever, but it wasn't just a stunt, it actually did help private businesses.

I also find the elevation of Deng over Xi odd, given that Deng all his economic reforms aside, also used to roll tanks over students. The current administration doesn't even seem close to go back to the old methods.

[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/188629/united-states-dir...

[2]https://monitor.icef.com/2019/04/chinas-foreign-enrolment-gr...

> I don't really see any evidence for the fact that foreigners are being squeezed out of China.

You're not exactly providing good evidence to prove your point either e.g. your article about being 5th most popular destination for students talks about the trend slowing down.

The trend I'm speaking of started about right when Xi assumed power.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wb3Z3w...

> FDI in China is actually up, even American investment in China.

Money from far away, foreign investors are always welcome in almost every country. China is no different. I'm talking about expats who were more permanent than temporary, foreign exchange students.

China still has a xenophobic culture. Has it gotten better? Sure it has, but it

> I also find the elevation of Deng over Xi odd, given that Deng all his economic reforms aside, also used to roll tanks over students.

There's no denying that what Deng did was unthinkable and largely due to paranoia, but that doesn't change the fact that it was he who opened up China and created its current economic machine. Xi has come after that fact. I'm not even sure how what he did is relevant to our discussion since I'm pretty sure Xi supported it.

I have to ask. How long do you stay in China when you visit? Are you fluent? If you're not, you're missing a lot of context.

>I have to ask. How long do you stay in China when you visit?

I've stayed usually for two to three months per year. I've been in Shenzhen, Hong Kong, Guangzhou mostly around tech folks. It's getting better but I'm not fluent, I can get around. So sure obviously I follow the politics it's of interest to me but mostly I've gotten my impression from work, talking to people and just living there.

And while the atmosphere is tenser maybe, there's more nationalistic tones in particular from very young people and it didn't feel as geopolitical say 8 years ago as it did 2 years ago, it doesn't seem like a fundamentally different place. I can't speak to every machination of the party but I don't think China is going to withdraw from the world, or not let foreigners in or anything like that. People from the very bottom to the top seem to know there's no way back to Mao's days, I don't think more political centralization is going to change that.

There's so much bad press these days you think China is the next Soviet Union, but it's hard to square with lived reality for me which is why responded quite strongly to the original post, there's just so many of them, I don't think it does the diversity in the country justice.

Here's the chance for the US manufacturing to catch up!

Myth. US manufacturing never went away, US manufacturing JOBS went away. Automation.

I buy numerous electronic devices, from laptops down to simple PWM dimmers. Very few of them are not made in China, even fewer proudly made in the US.

I would gladly pay 25% more for devices made on US soil by US robots, but so far the supply of such is pretty limited at best.

It’s easier to sell the fear of some foreign boogeyman, by claiming that foreigners took your jobs away. As opposed to robots that made your job obsolete.

Hey! Vote for me! I’ll bring those jobs back home!

Sound familiar?