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Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by abhinav22 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:15AM (#25569027)
For those who want a TL;DR, below is an extract of the summary. I think they did a good job, the article was well written.

Poverty traps are one of the most fundamental concepts in development economics. The contri- bution of this paper has been to provide evidence for their existence using the combination of a randomized asset transfer and an 11 year follow up in rural Bangladesh. Our key finding is that people stay poor because they lack opportunity. It is not their intrinsic characteristics that trap people in poverty but rather their circumstances. This has three implications for how we think about development policy.

The first is that big pushes that enable occupational change will be needed to address the global mass poverty problem. Small pushes will work to elevate consumption but will not get people out of the poverty trap. The magnitude of the transfer needed to achieve occupational change may be much larger than is typical with current interventions though importantly it can be time limited. Therefore the fiscal cost of permanently getting people out of poverty through a large, time limited transfer might actually be lower than relying on continual transfers that raise consumption but have no effect on the occupations of the poor.

The second is that big push policies can have long-lasting effects. Our analysis of long-run dynamics indicates that the asset, occupation and consumption trajectories of above threshold beneficiaries diverge from those of below threshold beneficiaries over time. This finding is impor- tant as it indicates that, by engendering occupational change, one time pushes can have permanent effects.

The third is that poverty traps create mismatches between talent and jobs. We have shown that misallocation of labor is rife amongst the poor in rural Bangladesh. Indeed, we show that the vast majority of the poor in rural Bangladesh are not engaged in the occupations where they would be most productive. They are perfectly capable of taking on the occupations of the richer women but are constrained from doing so by a lack of resources. The value of eliminating misallocation is an order of magnitude larger than the cost of moving all the beneficiaries past the threshold. This is important as it implies that poverty traps are preventing people from making full use of their abilities and indeed it is the mass squandering of people’s abilities that is the key tragedy of mass poverty.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by fl0tingh0st on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:48AM (#25569245)
Was searching for this. Thank you for writing.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by sul_tasto on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:27AM (#25569092)
If only there was some person or some group to realign society and correctly place everyone according to ability.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by postingpals on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:33AM (#25569125)
For those that are inevitably about to argue and downvote the above... It seems the economy is returning, smartly, towards keynesian models because we've seen first hand how destructive the past 50 years of austerity and free market economics has become. Its clear to me that we need to have a strong government to save the economy from market failures, including but not limited to job guarantees echoing those of the new deal in the 30s. Don't have to be a marxist to see that.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by sul_tasto on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:51AM (#25569259)
I agree that there were great policies established under the new deal. I would caution advocating for blanket rescuing of the economy from market failures, though. The recent stimulus provided by the US congress to the airline industry is a perfect example of executives taking advantage of taxpayers. I would also push back against the idea that the last 50 years have been destructive economically.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by postingpals on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:52AM (#25569263)
An example of a market failure is climate change, or at least many market failures are contained within this problem. Are you suggesting the government take a hands off approach to that? At the end of the day the government is necessary to the functioning of capitalism, we need to help people out of poverty so that among other things the economy can actually improve. That's all I'm arguing for, and I think there is undeniable proof of it at this point.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by sul_tasto on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @08:03AM (#25569369)
I completely agree with you on your point about climate change. I’m also not arguing for completely unregulated capitalism. I just think we need to be both smarter and more realistic about policy making. The 1% and corporations play both sides of the equation. At the same time, pulling down those who have been somewhat successful does nothing to fix poverty.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by sdfin on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:56AM (#25569304)
Since central banks were created, there was no more a fully free market. (this video explains it, subtitles recommmended https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lljmiLNoEtw )
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by iridium_core on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:34AM (#25569127)
How much of this is due to over-population? If the population of Bangladesh was 80 million instead of 160 million - giving each person access to theoretically double the amount of resources and land - would the net improvement be greater than 2x?

What about 40 million - would the improvement be 4x?

The solution may ultimately be a one-child policy, as demonstrated successfully by China.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by postingpals on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:36AM (#25569143)
China's policy wasn't all that successful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_China

Population control is a very outdated idea, we have enough resources for the population, we just don't know how to distribute them using free market models.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @08:02AM (#25569350)
> we have enough resources for the population,

How is this calculated? Are there enough resources for 8B people go to Tahiti or equivalent destinations for their honeymoon?

Because that’s where the conflict comes in. There might be enough resources to feed everyone some basic meals everyday, but is there enough for everyone to have their own single family detached house with a yard and a couple personal vehicles? Is there enough to ensure everyone can fly around the world to see their relatives or vacation? Is there enough desirable land for people to move to from their currently undesirable land (due to weather/accessibility/availability of fruits and good food)?

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by postingpals on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @08:11AM (#25569416)
Liveable necessities like water, food, and housing, that are either wasted on inefficient food production methods or given to rent-seekers (by the economic definition of the term). No one is claiming we are post-scarcity and that everyone can have the standard of living of a millionaire, though I would argue that one having a standard of living like this could take away from other people's standard of living.

Basically my argument, since this thread is quite far down now, is that over-population is not robbing the globe of resources in any amount worth worrying about and therefore population control is not going to solve inequality since it's a distribution problem.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by lotsofpulp on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @08:37AM (#25569606)
I would say the irreversible damage being caused from pollution of what we in the developed world would call “modest” lifestyles shows that we are at a limit, at least if people all over the world are aspiring for the single family detached house with a couple personal vehicles lifestyle.

Basically, I’d like to see what quality of life we would have if resources were distributed evenly. I imagine it wouldn’t be acceptable to most people who are used to their spoiled due to the inequality.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by iridium_core on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @03:18PM (#25574346)
There are missing women even in Australia and Canada - son preference is cultural.

https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/the-missing-girls-never-bo...

"mothers within some key migrant communities are recording sons at rates of 122 and 125 for every 100 daughters in later pregnancies."

The solution is for migrant-receiving countries (ie. the West) to place a limit of 49% males from any one country on any type of visa. This will dramatically boost the intake of females (for some visas and countries eg. India, the intake is 75% male) and thus their value to society in their home country.

Alternatively male migration could just be banned altogether from countries which practice systematic sex-selective abortion.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by inglor_cz on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:56AM (#25569298)
"we have enough resources for the population, we just don't know how to distribute them using free market models. "

That strikes me as improbable. Globally, you might be right - there is, for example, enough fresh water on the planet for many more people than are alie today.

But moving a lake from thinly populated Canadian wilderness to Niger or Burkina Faso, where the needy populations are, is not technically possible.

And vice versa, Sahara would be a perfect place to generate solar electricity, but the North European populations that would gladly consume it in the winter are too far away.

Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by postingpals on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @08:06AM (#25569389)
It's a big topic to get into, but what I really mean is there are certain resources that we either throw away or don't distribute that wouldn't require relocation, and could be given to people without needing to police them for having kids or whatever. Do you not think Nigeria and Bangladesh have this problem as well? It's not just the developed world. Underdeveloped countries have resource allocation problems and definitely have excess resources in some cases.
Re:Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf] by redis_mlc on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @07:50AM (#25569258)
> The solution may ultimately be a one-child policy, as demonstrated successfully by China.

It turns out that most Chinese couples were allowed 2 children:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

But there's wide reporting of females being scarce, so some families were involved in female infanticide, which will cause long-term demographic issues.

China is currently facing famine, so we'll see how that affects the population. (It turns out that although China is a communist country, they didn't/don't provide welfare for the flood victims, tens of millions of whom are farmers.)

A more regional problem is that China is damming the Himalayan head waters, so the downstream countries (India, Pakistan, etc.) will face drought on a large scale. Usually that leads to war.