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Re:Computer science is not software engineering by abdullahkhalids on Saturday December 26, 2020 @11:06AM (#25544214)
As a physics prof, who teaches quantum computing, I have the opposite problem. At my university, the computer science degree is just a software engineering degree. Students barely learn any computer science fundamentals beyond those required to get a SE job. There are very good at the SE, no doubt, but I really wish the uni just called a spade a spade, and a a software engineering degree a BS software engineering.
Re:Computer science is not software engineering by 908B64B197 on Saturday December 26, 2020 @01:46PM (#25545423)
Which school?

I've encountered so many definitions of Computer Science and Software Engineering that I lost track. Every school seems to interpret the brief slightly differently.

Some school have Computer Science as a spin off of the mathematics department. You can graduate without writing a single line of code. As Knuth said in one of it's memos: "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."[0]

Others have Computer Science as a spinoff of EE (MIT and Berkley are like that) where CS is the skills you need once the circuits are reliable enough you don't have to care too much for their implementation.

Lastly, I've seen "Software Engineering" courses at some places that are almost trade-school-esque discipline (beware of some masters degrees [1]) that's basically what would have been called data processing or IT/Information System.

Other places consider it double major in CS and Engineering where there's dedicated courses on software design. As a rule of thumb, if the OS class is about mutex and semaphore you are at the right spot. If there's group policy involved, look at transferring.

[0] http://staff.science.uva.nl/~peter/knuthnote.pdf [1] https://blog.alinelerner.com/how-different-is-a-b-s-in-compu...

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by spideymans on Saturday December 26, 2020 @02:27PM (#25545746)
>Lastly, I've seen "Software Engineering" courses at some places that are almost trade-school-esque discipline (beware of some masters degrees [1]) that's basically what would have been called data processing or IT/Information System.

At my institution, the Software Engineering students take the same courses as the Computer Science students. However, the SE program has less flexibility in electives, as nearly all of their electives have been replaced by mandatory engineering courses.

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by 908B64B197 on Saturday December 26, 2020 @03:26PM (#25546202)
That's more like the second option I described. I like that approach.
Re:Computer science is not software engineering by Rebles on Saturday December 26, 2020 @12:23PM (#25544812)
I wish I knew the difference when I started at university. In retrospect, It wouldn't have changed anything, because I love my time as an undergrad at my school. But, the perception of what a software engineer career looks like would have changed. At best, I would have advocated to my school of engineering to offer a software engineering degree.

Though, I imagine it is difficult for universities. They're trying to be more theoretical and less practical than trade schools, despite the majority of undergrads do not continue to pursue more degrees. I imagine if universities shifted its focus to more applied sciences, it might be even harder to keep the number of applications for masters and phd programs up.

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by abdullahkhalids on Saturday December 26, 2020 @01:05PM (#25545133)
Universities can offer a real computer science degree from the Science school, and a SE degree from the engineering department. Same way, Electrical Engineering degrees are not called BS Physics and Electromagnetism, and are separate from the Physics degree.

I doubt there will be any impact on MS/Phd applicants. The people who are interested in the fundamentals are usually interested from the start.

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by chrismeller on Saturday December 26, 2020 @11:30AM (#25544387)
It’s nice to hear someone “on the inside” say that.

I fully support offering degrees that train you for the practical aspects of software engineering without wasting time on things you’re unlikely to ever use in that field. At the same time, one of these things is not like the other, you can’t call them the same.

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by vmception on Saturday December 26, 2020 @12:39PM (#25544922)
a software engineering degree that takes 4 years is a waste of time then

those trades schools that popped up are good enough

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by abdullahkhalids on Saturday December 26, 2020 @12:59PM (#25545087)
The students also get an education in history, philosophy, economics, policy, etc, that help them become more rounded individuals, and to some extent, engineers who understand the impact of their work on society a lot more.

While, I support trade schools for SE, they don't provide a "complete" education.

Re:Computer science is not software engineering by rgblambda on Saturday December 26, 2020 @01:26PM (#25545301)
To my knowledge, it's only really the U.S and maybe Canada that do the whole rounded education thing. In the U.K, Ireland, and what I've seen on eunicas, the degree is focused on a single subject.
Re:Computer science is not software engineering by vmception on Saturday December 26, 2020 @02:20PM (#25545671)
Oh we understand the professor and academia perspective, we also understand how that is divorced from reality.

Higher education was always for elitists that had the privilege and time to pursue "complete" education. Everyone else just got a job, they went to trade school or had an apprenticeship or just less specialized work. A lot of that kind of work - briefly in history and into the present - required having a degree. Software engineering is not one of those.

So don't get it twisted. People that want to pursue a complete education because they are interested in the subject can keep going to academia. For everyone else, it is a waste of time, software engineering trade schools are cheaper, faster and good enough.