If you're already thinking about trying it for a year or two, you're serious enough that a teacher will be far more helpful than an app, and a cheap, small, non-weighted midi keyboard will limit you a lot.
> But if you just want to make music in a modern way (on the computer)
Acoustic or digital, music is more than a series of button presses. All the things I mentioned apply even if the only thing you want to do is play 4-chord pop songs.
If you seriously want to learn and play piano, even as a hobby, that is the entry level.
I also disagree with using any of the popular apps as anything more than supplemental tools, but there are some very good adult lesson books can definitely form the backbone of your learning. As long as you're aware that posture and technique is a struggle for self-taught pianists, you can look for videos and make some conscious effort to improve at it.
Buying an $80 smaller midi keyboard is a good way to get a cursory feel for things without spending the full amount.
And then it turns out that Python is actually quite a useful language, and that the keyboard-shaped thing is better than nothing.
Adding my vote for never ever touching an “el cheapo” instrument. A junk keyboard and guitar made me think I disliked those instruments as a younger person, and it makes me sad when I see kids struggling with instruments that I can’t make sound good with years of experience.
Get secondhand for $100-150.
We're in an old house and there isn't a piano-sized space in our living room that doesn't have a window, door, or HVAC intake/vent.
I can recommend Entropy Tuner, which is a great piece of software to help you tune a piano properly.
First, a lesson where I get Covid is a really expensive lesson. A lesson where I give Covid to a teacher is a really expensive lesson for them, and I don't want to be responsible for potentially killing someone for lessons.
Second, there is a wide range in the quality of teachers today. While it is true that feedback will accelerate learning, I've been able to learn a fair amount from teachers on the web, taking their knowledge and adapting it as I need.
Am I progressing as fast as I would if I had a teacher? Of course not. Will I get a teacher eventually, after Covid? I'd like to. But it's a luxury at this point and the ability to learn is better than procrastination.
Yes. Nobody I know will play in the London philharmonic. But we figured out enough to play a cover band in highschool, and I'm figuring out enough to learn passable music production. On that note, from what I've learned from their interviews, many of the biggest producers have never taken a music lesson.
This isn't me arguing against lessons writ large, simply pushing back on the notion that they, and other barriers to entry, are not barriers at all. There are other paths.
But if your goal is to perform; sure, you'll be able to play simple compositions, but anything complex will pose a challenge without a teacher (or even good material that makes you aware of what to look out for). I think that's what your critics are trying to point out.
The real problem here is you're equating learning music theory with 'learning the piano'.
The variation in results is much higher if you go off the well beaten path.
Secondly, if you think learning piano is comparable to programming or art then you are completely mistaken.
Edit- added here since HN doesn’t let you comment anymore if you get downvoted too much.
With programming, the feedback is immediate and accurate. You know if your code does compile. You know if your logic is bugged or if your algorithm is too inefficient. If the code you write doesn’t work, somebody can give you their code to bring you up to speed. This allows you to immediately address your issues.
With piano, (at least in the beginning) you are not qualified to judge if your hand position is right, if your posture won’t give your RSI in the long run, if you are even playing the right notes, if your rhythm is off, if you are reading the sheet music wrong, if your pedal is timing subtly off or if your legato is correct. You can practice for hours on playing the wrong thing. A teacher can help you get this stuff to get fixed. Secondly, unless you started ear training as a child you won’t ever be able to develop absolute pitch. Your ability to discern pitch and listen to the very music you are playing is already at a disadvantage. You’re basically blind and deaf and you have no idea what progress should look like apart from superficial judgments.
Music, in and of itself, is pretty simple and natural to create: clap your hands, stomp your feet, sing a little. There's a low "skill floor" on it.
Programming has a much bigger skill floor - syntax, memory management, indirection, and other conceptual forms of knowledge. But once you have the concept, it doesn't matter a great deal what exact things you type if it's implementing that concept successfully.
But music has tradition, and not just one - it's one per instrument, with subsets for different playing styles. When you get classical training(which I did) there's a lot of pedigree built-in to being a "student of so-and-so". You learn technical competence - how to not injure yourself by playing(RSI is a big one but it also occurs with posture, breath control and so forth) - but also to express the music interpretively, a translator who turns notes on the page into a dynamic performance, and this involves both repetition and attention to detail that is suited for coaching. Music can be very athletic at the world-class level!
Over time I've been able to cross over the two worlds - finding ways of programming that are a little more iterative, more like performance - and approaching music from a more theory-and-concepts perspective has helped me understand compositions beyond the surface expression. But the broad differences still remain.
And take everything that has been written (barrier to entry, etc) and add COVID isolation into the mix. We are still in this mess for another 9 months about.
Im not arguing about teacher vs app in the most generic sense...but one can spend 30 mins a day with an app on wireless earphones and get to a pretty decent State for playing is worth it.
And I have to disagree a lot with you. I had a piano teacher when I was young and that person put me off piano for the next 45 years or so. A good teacher will help you, a not so good teacher may well cause you to lose interest.
Right now I'm practicing on my own, when I want, without a set schedule and without the goal of getting good enough to satisfy my - nonexistent - teacher.
Likely a good teacher would help. But good teachers cost money, have their own schedules to keep and their goals may not overlap with mine. So this time around I'm taking it as slow or as fast as I want, when I want, learning pieces that are probably way above my level but that keep me motivated because I like to play them.
If at some point I feel that I hit a plateau then I might go for a teacher for a while with the express goal of getting unstuck.
Finally, not everybody learns in the same way and not everybody has your budget. I love learning by doing, not by being told how to do it and there is as sense of pride in learning a skill by yourself instead of having it handed down, it also allows you to develop your own style rather than to become a carbon copy of what your teacher considers to be 'proper'. There is room for all of this and yours as well but I don't like the way you are all over this thread proclaiming the 'one true way', there are as many ways as there are people and what works for one person could easily be someone else's nightmare. It would be nice if you at least acknowledged that you have not taken into account the goal of whoever you have in mind as your hypothetical piano student and that not everybody will fit that image.
We agree that there are not shortcuts and that there is no magic method, but I think everybody that is somewhat serious about any instrument would agree on that.
> their goals may not overlap with mine.
That's a matter of talking with the teacher and setting down the goals.
> Finally, not everybody learns in the same way and not everybody has your budget.
My point is not "I did classes and I'm good now", is "I didn't do enough classes and now I see how that wasn't the best".
> I don't like the way you are all over this thread proclaiming the 'one true way'
If that's the way I'm coming across I'm sorry. My point is that there's more to music learning that people think (specially in HN, where I've seen really bad takes in some posts), and that they should be mindful that an app will not be a magic method. I've seen friends that had very high expectations and then got discouraged quickly. I prefer that people know what's ahead, and align the method to use with the expectations they have.
I'd advocate for the occasional review by a teacher to see whether you are picking up any bad habits but to most importantly focus on having fun so that you stay motivated. Nothing will kill interest in an instrument in the early stages of learning as much as drilling boring stuff, even if that has long term advantages, after all if there is no long term because of that then what's the point?
Also, you can have a teacher where the focus is to have fun with it and not drilling boring stuff. That's precisely the conversation I had with my current clarinet teacher. We still do boring stuff but he also brings me jazz songs and classical duets to play according to my level. It's a matter of establishing your goals with the teacher the same way you put them with yourself.
- Teachers can not give you motivation but they can sure kill it.
- An app that keeps people motivated is better than nothing at all.
- Horses for courses (not everybody is the same, and equally affluent, what works for you may not work for someone else) and if people are on a budget and they find a way that can make them enjoy what they are doing without breaking the bank on teachers and piano tuners then that's a benefit.
- With what is available online + a $400 digital piano you can get surprisingly far if you are self motivated, and occasionally spending an hour or two with a teacher (or simply a better pianist) will stretch your abilities further.
- if you feel that you are not comfortable or maybe even are injuring yourself then stop whatever you are doing and ask an expert.
- If you have a goal and/or want to be able to perform and value your time over your cash then a good teacher is the way to go but beware, not all teachers are good.
- if you can afford it, want it and you can find a good teacher definitely go for that.
- An acoustic piano is not a 'must' to be able to learn and practice, in fact, a digital has some advantages (the ability to practice with headphones). Silent pianos exist but are usually quite pricey.
Finally, I'd like to plug http://forum.pianoworld.com/ which is an excellent resource for people interested in playing and teaching piano.
Nice point.
As a teenager, I took piano lessons for several years from two good teachers. Nearly fifty years later, I still enjoy playing the piano every day, so lessons obviously worked for me.
But if I were starting out to learn to play the piano now, I probably wouldn't go the teacher route at first. Rather, I would sample various apps, method books, websites, and, especially, YouTube videos and see what I could learn from each of them. I expect some would be too hard, some too easy, and some focused on styles of music I'm not interested in. But in the process of sampling various approaches, I would be able to find out what benefits and motivates me and what doesn't. I suspect that I would end up at least as satisfied with the results as I am now.
learning using an app is low pressure, very pleasant, very game-y. Im at the point, where the game has gotten me interested enough that I wandered on the internet towards "Taubman method for eliminating RSI", etc.
I strongly recommend it for kids even. Im pretty sure this will get me flamed by people who play piano already, but I'm willing to bet money that for non-musical parents, they would be pleasantly surprised that their kids are doing something other than playing videogames...and kinda learning something awesome while stuck at home.
Im wondering about the next steps from Simply Piano in a couple of months.
I have been told Czerny. But I'm not sure if that's the path that takes me to eventually playing Chopin.
Would love to know if you figured out a "hacker way".
The next step is to outfit my ancient Yamaha G3 (1966), that I bought relatively cheaply with a sensor bar so the software can be used on the acoustic piano as well rather than just on the digital one. I love the sound of the acoustic.
The software will be further expanded over the next year, we have a very long list of things we want to add and make it do, hopefully without cluttering the user interface by making most of it completely automatic. Some of these features will be groundbreaking, the current iteration is more of a testbed than anything else. If you want to mess around with it or hack on it feel free: https://pianojacq.com/ the code is on gitlab as well.
However what is the self-learning path to follow ? What is the pieces to practice ?
Im hoping you have an opinionated idea- it may not be perfect, but for a person like me ..super valuable!
For the moment though your best bet is to simply download a bunch of midi files and pick some that you would like to learn.
I've been learning the saxophone for a few months (ask my neighbours) and have used a bunch of different methods. I find that even bad practice is good practice, so to speak. It's just important to keep a feedback loop: listen to yourself, compare yourself to good players and look for the differences. And don't just use an app, vary your training using multiple sources and methods to find what works best for you, as well and filling the gaps.
For the saxophone I found that a good way to spot bad habits force yourself to "do things right" is to force yourself to play in a different key every day. This forces you to deconstruct what you're playing, as well as making sure that you can play on the entire range of your instrument.
Sure, it's better to start with good personalized private courses with a good teacher and excellent hardware but many people wouldn't even start if that was the barrier of entry. I know that I definitely wouldn't have.
Having to unlearn bad habits a few years down the line is annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
May I try to persuade you otherwise?
Bad habits are often linked to repetitive injuries in the long run. This is something that you don't really notice several months in, but will bite you when you start to play a lot.
If you really want to self-teach, I would suggest at least take some classes in the beginning to properly form your posture.
If you learn to play piano 30 minutes every day for a year you'd really have to be doing it critically wrong to manage to maim yourself.
Of course if you manage to stick with it long term and really commit a lot of time practicing, you better learn good posture sooner or later, but I don't think it's worth front-loading all stuff. It just raises the barrier for entry without huge benefits IMO.
>This is something that you don't really notice several months in, but will bite you when you start to play a lot.
Sure, I completely agree, but unlearning bad habits, while annoying, is part of getting good at anything I think. You need to pick your battles when you're starting, there's so much to learn.
For me the equivalent would be teaching a programming course, but insist that everybody must be touchtyping in Dvorak on ergonomic keyboards when they're coding. While it's not necessarily bad advice in the long run all it'll achieve is make your students think that programming is a lot harder than it really is.
Surely we’ve survived worse things. But that’s not the point.
The point is weighing the cost of a few months of lessons, and the risk of injuries.
Usually beginners don’t have to find the most expensive teacher; a undergraduate would suffice.
Why risk bad habits when there is an affordable alternative?
I too have been learning piano over the last five months or so, but I found a private teacher through a local music school. Very glad I made that decision, we work well together and it’s amazing having someone for 1hr a week to keep you on track, motivated, correcting you in real time.
Apps cannot do that, but there IS room for technology to assist remote learning. Neither of us has an amazing camera setup that can capture a full 88 key piano, which is tricky for performances that span many octaves... so you know pretty much any song :P We both have MIDI out though, which got me to thinking you could pretty easily stream that MIDI data through a p2p connection to render keys on a remote end in near real time.
I have been working on a prototype on and off for a few months on a prototype and testing it with my teacher. It’s been useful for picking up the slack of not having complex camera rigging, and the cost of entry is buying a midi-to-usb cable.
Anyway I’ve been ramping up to get it ready for letting other people try it out and wanted to hop into this very relevant thread and drop the pitch to see if there is interest in the idea!
Will do! That is of course the focal point of any code I write for this, and it’s very tricky. To perhaps give you a little more confidence that I might figure this out, I know it’s not as simple as forwarding midi data through WebRTC and playing it on receipt on the other end ;)
This gist of how I do it now is conceding to the fact that network latency exists and having a sort of buffer that allows midi note data to arrive out of order but be played back at the original timings (just delayed)
If so send me an email please, [email protected]
> Does the app correct your position (important if you don't want to get fatigue and cramps), your volume, fingerings, etc?
Yes, the app does constantly reminding you to have the correct position, shows fingering but does indeed not test for volume. It's obviously not as good as having a teacher constantly watching you.
I have also recently started some lessons with a piano teacher for more in-depth music theory and checking my current progress, she didn't have too much stuff to correct, so the app wasn't that bad and the stuff that I learnt was actually correct and usable. One thing that the teacher was a lot better at than the app was explaining how more complex musical concepts are linked together and how focusing more on the basics is more important that learning specific things/progressions.
> connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard
I use the Yamaha NP 12 (it costs around $200), it sounds amazing but it does have only 61 keys and it's semi-weighted. I still think it's good enough for learning how to play.
One thing that you might be missing is the fact that most of the people wanting to learn the piano don't plan on becoming a professional, they just want to be able to learn and play a few songs or improvise a bit. In order to do this usually "good enough" is good enough, you don't need the best equipment or the perfect technique. It's also important, as you mentioned, to know what to expect and what you are missing out on by using the learning methods you do.
That's not what I meant by position, I meant hand position, finger curving, etc. If you did it well at the start that's nice, some people don't (in fact there's a guy in this same thread saying that he has finger cramps when playing).
> so the app wasn't that bad and the stuff that I learnt was actually correct and usable.
That's great! I'm not saying it's useless, only that has limitations, the same thing that you noticed when you started with a teacher.
> I still think it's good enough for learning how to play.
As long as it's weighted it's decent, and 61 keys for starters is not too bad either. When the parent said 'cheapo midi keyboard' I was thinking of one of these small cheap keyboards that almost looks like a toy.
> One thing that you might be missing is the fact that most of the people wanting to learn the piano don't plan on becoming a professional, they just want to be able to learn and play a few songs or improvise a bit. In order to do this usually "good enough" is good enough
I know that. I'm talking precisely to that people, because I'm one of those people. I'm doing that with the clarinet right now in fact. If you really want to play a few songs by yourself and improvise a bit, you're taking it seriously enough to the point I do think it's worth it to go to a teacher.
Im very far away from being able to control the nuances of volume. Im still at the point, where I'm learning to use my left and right hands independently and play without looking.
And that's what SimplyPiano gets you to - it's a structured program+game that teaches you to read music and gain hand independence using an app.
Im pretty self aware that I will need a teacher at some point. I have been a gamer and had formal teaching in music when I was kid.
I find it hard to believe that a teacher would be able to correct me in real time, while simultaneously having me enjoy the process. Once I start playing half decently, the memory of music is motivation enough.
Not right now.
When I had piano lessons as a child, playing classical music for years became boring and uninteresting to me. I believe apps with a wide range of music help keep interest levels up. The app seems like a great way to dip your toes into playing piano without committing to finding a teacher.
For me, it was just "hitting a few symbols". Suddenly in 2 weeks, I was reading music. It uses exactly the same tactics as any videogame lets you figure out game mechanics.
Suddenly, you're playing another state of the game...and oh hey it's THAT song.
This is hard to conceptualize for someone who can already play. But you have to understand that in October, I had no clue I would be reading music in December.
As someone who started out painting with a $10 set of Daler-Rowney on a $4 block of paper from Walmart, I can say wholeheartedly, one can experiment at the cheap end and then be pleasantly surprised at the top end while learning and enjoying themselves. $200 worth of colours you never use because you don't enjoy painting that much is a waste of money. $20 worth of paint you fill every notebook and sketchpad up with doodles is worth every penny. As you progress (and decide if the hobby is even worth doing), you pick up some of those $10 a tube paints and realize the purists weren't wrong, they DO paint better, but they won't make you a better painter.
Personally I have a $99 AKAI MPC-Mini with only one octave worth of keys and have only dabbled a bit with it connected to my PC, but its infinitely better than Smule on the iPad and eventually with an app or through lessons on Youtube, one could absolutely learn the skills needed to play a composition an actual piano--all as the GP said, from the comfort of your own home, at your own pace.
But then again, it comes down to what you want to achieve. If you just want to mind numbingly press buttons, knock yourself out.
It's gatekeeping. I don't want to be excellent piano, or even all that good. I want to be able to occasionally play a song not very well, and play some chords in a way that pleases me. Mostly, I want to plug chords on a whim into my DAW, where I have control to a level I, as a non savant, will never be able to play to.
The OP advice was perfect for someone like me who has learned piano just fine that way.
PS: the weighted keyboard thing is actually important. You can get cheap weighted keyboards for less than 200$, maybe even less in second-hand market. A non-weighted keyboard will limit your playing a lot, even early on.
Many teachers can teach once a month. Many music are free on IMSLP, musescore, etc. There are cheaper ways to get started than what you have been apparently told.
My main objection to using an app are 1) it doesn't correct your posture which might lead to injuries in the long run (though not a concern if you don't play frequently) 2) it usually takes a lot longer to reach the level you have in mind. Learning from a teacher actually saves time.
But, if you just want an interface to DAW, I think an app is fine, since there is no need for phrasing, or timing, etc. You'll probably be fine even without the app.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyYcnXQZJY&list=RDzWmz5-NoF...
Of course, better not to form bad habits, but your body has some pretty good signals to tell you that you are doing something wrong.
And you're not really understanding me. I don't feel like these apps cheapen my effort. I just wish I knew the things I talk about in my comment earlier so that I could have taken the piano classes I had more seriously and I wouldn't have to suffer now the lack of technique, exercise and repertoire I have now.
You're emphasizing boosterism over honesty. If "we" "want" something to be more popular, we should encourage shallow engagement with it, not correct poeples' bad habits, and just shout, "yay! More people in my thing!"
Bullshit boosterism chases me off, and I know it chases others off, too. It tells me you have an agenda that treats me instrumentally, which is an excellent way to make me just ignore you.
Most humans are not so bad at figuring that out.
People who are learning an instrument are arguably at their most creative in fact because they don't know the right way to use the instrument. As they become more proficient it seems they "fall in line" and naïveté and serendipity go by the wayside.
No shit. I said, 'most people are not so bad at figuring this out'.
You're conflating an approach to niche skill development with jerks who don't know how to behave in public. They're not the same thing, and again, most normal people seem more than capable of figuring this out.
Why is people putting a little effort into making something aesthetic and fun such a crime?
Serious piano has no payoff unless you're better than all the professional recordings we already have.
To many beginners starting out, the term "learn piano" can be used in a generic way and could mean anything from becoming a classical concert pianist, a Rick Wakeman-esque rock keyboardist, a Daft Punk-like synthesist, a digital composer creating symphonic cinema scores out of virtual software plug-in orchestras - or they may want to target the flexibility to "do it all." I'm a largely self-taught, hobbyist digital producer who loves my 61-key MIDI-only, synth action Fatar key beds but we started our elementary-aged kid with a Julliard-trained classical piano teacher and bought a $600 88-key, fully weighted Casio MIDI keyboard for home practice. The Casio sound engine doesn't sound as good as the virtual Bosendorfer in my laptop but it's more than good enough and our kid has benefited greatly from having traditional instruction (for form, posture, bad-habit prevention, etc) but also enjoys practicing teacher-approved pieces with a tablet-based, gamified MIDI app that reports practice frequency, accuracy, speed, timing variance, etc stats back to the teacher to inform progress as well as areas for improvement.
Your advice would be generally applicable to a beginner with goals similar to my kid but off target for a beginner with goals like mine.
>> connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard
I agree that just saying "cheap midi keyboard" needs a warning that there are some really poor quality keybeds on the lower-end. The issue is not just the "weighting" of the keys not matching a mechanical piano but also wobble side to side, inconsistent trigger depth, no velocity sensitivity. These issues can substantially impact basic playability and expressiveness to the extent that much of the practice may not fully translate to decent (ie more "standard") key beds.
> non-weighted keys will limit you a lot
This depends on whether the learner wants to be able to play a traditional mechanical piano which is what "weighted" key beds emulate. Weighted key beds respond very differently compared to what's called "synth action" key beds. Real piano keys require substantially more finger pressure to actuate, go down slower, and come back up slower. The trigger curve is also different than synth action. Personally, I actually prefer a high-quality synth action key bed. I have over a dozen different high-quality synth action key beds on various MIDI-only keyboards as well as synthesizers I've acquired over two decades of playing. While I'm very particular about the feel of the key beds I use, my goal has never been to be a "piano player" but rather a "keyboardist". I feel this is more a matter of personal preference and goals than objective right or wrong. My advice to beginners is to be aware of the differences and make an informed choice by first visiting a music store like Guitar Center and trying out several key beds of different types and quality levels. Regardless of their goals I generally advise beginners to stay away from any MIDI-only controller keyboards which are less than $200 new MSRP or any MIDI+sound source keyboards which are less than $400 new MSRP as those likely have meaningful compromises in basic quality or features to reach that price point. If someone's not experienced, it's also generally a good idea to lean toward better-known brands like Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc and read pro reviewer's assessments.
> The sound is terrible
Many people these days don't have the space or funds for a real piano (and even a small one can be heavier than a fridge). If it's not a real piano, then you're triggering a virtual sound source. The quality of any virtual sound source is a more a matter of DSP processing power, sample memory, algorithm quality, etc. There are some very good virtual piano sound engines in relatively inexpensive MIDI keyboards (especially used via Craigslist) as well as in laptop, tablet and even phone-based MIDI software apps. I have a virtually modeled Bosendorfer Grand Piano software plug-in on my Dell XPS 2-in-1 laptop that's pretty indistinguishable from a real one.
Which app is this ?
Also, curious to know..do you think virtual pianos are good enough for smartphones (iOS/android) or do you still need laptops?
My general advice about learning via piano apps is that it can be reasonably effective for practicing some things, for some types of learners but apps are not (IMHO) sufficient to teach all things keyboard to all types of learners.
I think the ideal approach for many people and scenarios would combine an experienced instructor with solo practice, some app-assisted practice and some video-assisted/written study. How much of each and the sequencing will depend largely on the learner and their objectives.
As is usually the case, "conscious practice" tends to be far better than "rote (mindless) practice". When our kid got into the third year of piano, solo practice sessions became more of a struggle, frequently slipping into mindless repetition that was largely ineffective. That's when we introduced some app-assisted practice sessions. The app approach was helpful because it provided consistent, granular, objective feedback on missed notes, timing, etc. Obviously no app can replicate all the dimensions of an experienced human coach but in the right context app-assisted practice can be a useful component of a blended learning strategy.
The teacher we picked for our kid is classically trained and pretty hardcore (both of her own kids are now college-aged very serious concert pianists). She has a masters in music as well as a masters in childhood education. She doesn't generally like the apps but she knows that they can be effective with some younger students to keep them engaged in home practice. The app she uses is called Piano Maestro, which is a more well-known brand. However, there are a quite a few well-regarded apps, and, as you'd expect, a zillion crappy apps. I suspect our chosen instructor's preference is more about the large library of more traditional pieces which Piano Maestro has licensed as well as the PM's business model which has a rev share with teachers.
As a technologist, IMHO MIDI keyboard playing instruction apps aren't a fundamentally "hard problem". I think the quality has a lot to do with UX, instructional approach and the appeal of the available library of practice songs to the learner. I'd suggest creating a "short list" of titles by reading some objective user and pro reviews on musically focused sites instead of random app store ratings. Then I'd watch YT video reviews and/or try demos/trials. The key is finding an app which seems to fit your personal style and needs for UX, content library, instructional gradient, chunking, etc. For example, Angry-Birds-esque gamification really helps my kid stay focused during the repetition necessary to clean-up timing errors while learning a challenging recital piece but that "slot machine" ding-ding-ding approach would drive me nuts. Our kid doesn't want to watch instructional video clips but I've learned a fair bit of practical music theory and digital production tips on YouTube.
> do you think virtual pianos are good enough for smartphones (iOS/android) or do you still need laptops?
"Good enough" is always tricky when it comes to things that are application dependent as well as being subjective preference. Frankly, I have very little experience with phone-based music apps because I'm a pretty serious hobbyist and regardless of the sound-quality, the screen size of phones is a non-starter for my needs. In general, I've heard that support for advanced audio timing features in Android lags iOS though it's apparently slowly improving. GarageBand being one of Steve Job's "hero" demo apps was probably an early forcing function. Obviously, recent phone CPUs from Qualcomm and Apple have enough DSP horsepower to do serious things. The issue is the depth of OS support for more "pro" use cases like routing MIDI and virtual audio channel routing between multiple apps with multiple tracks while maintaining adequate real-time responsiveness in milliseconds.
A couple years back I did spend a couple hundred dollars on serious apps for an iPad Pro (12.9 inch) such as Cubasis, some Korg virtual instruments (>$25 each), etc. The various piano sounds certainly seemed high-quality enough, performant enough and expressive enough for the purposes of learning to play keyboards. A lot of the instruments included in GarageBand are pretty impressive for just playing. Where iOS apps lag desktop software and pro plug-in libraries is in areas like simultaneous multi-tracking and depth of subtle control of individual instrument voicing.
I eventually abandoned doing music on the iPad Pro because the "good" apps aren't exactly cheap, though they do go on crazy (>60% off) sales from time to time. They also tend not to be as fully controllable at the detail-level as desktop apps/plug-ins. That said, there are certainly "iPad-only" music producers creating impressive pro-level work but my compositions can sometimes grow to hundreds of tracks, dozens of CPU cycle-sucking virtual instruments and multiple sample libraries weighed in gigabytes of size. But then again, my DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software is Cubase Pro ($600) and I use several >$500 virtual instruments because I'm pretty into this (my use of early, primitive software virtual instruments on Windows started in 1996 and has expanded pretty continuously since). The increase in sophistication has been remarkable. However, I do want to note that in recent years I've seen demos of increasingly impressive capabilities on offer on iOS and desktop at sub-$100 per app/instrument prices. But... for my needs, I'm hooked on my PC workstation with multiple widescreen monitors and multiple different types of MIDI controllers (with pedals outboard MIDI faders/knobs, etc). It all depends on your preferences and where you ultimately want to go.
Bottom line, there's never been a better time to get into personal music-making. You can do far more with much less money or innate skill than ever before while the power and capabilities on offer are truly mind-blowing, dirt cheap and sometimes even free.
Cubasis works on mobile - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.steinberg.... as well as other options like ntrack 8 . There is also latency comparisons for android devices here https://ntrack.com/android-latency/devices
> connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard
Please don't do that. I mean, if you just want to give it a try to piano and not spend anything, yeah, go ahead, but a small keyboard with non-weighted keys will limit you a lot, even early on. The sound is terrible, you won't be able to control the volume properly, and getting a better technique to play better and faster will be far more difficult. Not to mention that at some point you will try to use the extra keys and if they're are not there you can't do anything. If you want to seriously take up piano, just buy a decent keyboard at the start, you'll end up needing it anyways.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, anything that gets more people into playing music is good. But I think it's also good if people know the advantages and limitations of the method they use to learn, and are able to choose the method that fits their expectations. If you just want to poke your nose into piano playing maybe an app is enough for you, but there are no shortcuts and no magic method.